Questions about replacing the cabs for my Eden Wt550 head

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Tannerwr64, Oct 12, 2016.


  1. Tannerwr64

    Tannerwr64

    Oct 12, 2016
    Lately I have been looking into buying a new Eden D410XLT cab for my Eden WT550.
    My current set up is a Fender P-bass (passive) into the WT550 into a D210XLT and a D115XLT. The 210 says that it has an impedance of 8 ohms with an RMS of 350 watts. The 115 has an impedance of 8 ohms with RMS 400 watts. The head says it puts out RMS 300/500/750 with a load of 8/4/2 ohms, respectively. My problem is this: the 210 speakers crease and "fart" when my gain and master are each at only 50% on many notes on the E or A string, and I keep the low end EQ at a reasonable level. It sometimes occurs with the 115 as well but not very often. I want to be able to achieve the louder volumes that my amp can provide, but the cabs seem to be limiting this.
    When I play into both cabs, the total load on the amp would be 4 ohms (right?), so each would be experiencing 500 watts, or is this incorrect? If this is the case, neither cab is rated to handle 500 watts. However when I play with just the 210, the load should be 8 ohms, resulting in only 300 watts, which should fit in the 350 watt limit, however the same creasing and farting occurs at about half gain. If I were to get single D410XLT cabinet rated at an RMS 700 watts, would using a 4 ohm or 8 ohm model solve this problem and allow me to get louder volumes?
     
  2. Rick James

    Rick James Inactive

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    The problem you're having isn't watts, it's excursion. The cones can't move as far as the amp is trying to push them. The cab rating doesn't tell you how much power it can take before it runs out of excursion. Every company should tell you how much excursion their cabs have, but AFAIK only Barefaced does. I recommend them, but they're hard to find outside of England. Your other option is with a DIY cab using plans from BFM or Fearful, because then you know what drivers are in them and how much excursion they have. If you can't build one yourself both BFM and Fearful have custom builders. I have a 550 myself, I use a BFM Jack 12 most of the time, a BFM Omni 15 for major gigs, like outdoors. Neither has ever farted out on me.
     
    Eddie Ortiz likes this.
  3. Tannerwr64

    Tannerwr64

    Oct 12, 2016
    Thank you that clears some things up! Unfortunately, I dont think i will be able to build a cab myself at the time. Im not sure i completely understand what you mean by the cones cannot move as far as the amp is trying to push them, because the speakers physically protrude out a good half inch or inch when the farting occurs, moving MORE than they are supposed to. I'm going to go ahead and research excursion as well. Do you have any suggestions of how I could fix the problem by either replacing the speakers themselves or buying a cabinet on the market in the US from either eden or another brand?
     
  4. Tannerwr64

    Tannerwr64

    Oct 12, 2016
    Personal Update: From what I understand, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the RMS power rating on the back is a rating for thermal power capabilities, not mechanical capabilities (as is the issue with the speaker popping out). Is the speaker popping out on the 210 called over-excursion? I read that this can be remedied by having more surface area on your speakers, so would using a 410 as opposed to a 210 improve things to an extent?
     
  5. 12bass

    12bass

    Jan 2, 2003
    Victoria, Canada
    Overexcursion is the problem here. More drivers are necessary for the volume you're using. While Barefaced and fEARful cabinets handle more power before hitting the excursion limit, they are also less sensitive, so they require more power to achieve the same volume. Perhaps a 6x10" is required?

    Are you using any Enhance or boosting the Bass control? If so, dialing those back will be easier on the drivers.
     
  6. Tannerwr64

    Tannerwr64

    Oct 12, 2016
    I generally have the enhance pot all the way up. So backing this off to maybe 2 o clock would help?
    I for sure want to use 10s as my speakers. Does that mean that the more speakers I have, the less of a problem over-excursion will become? Will a 410, 610, or 810 perform better than a 210?
     
  7. Lowendtech

    Lowendtech Happily trending in my own peculiar direction. Supporting Member

    Yes,this is incorrect. Two 8 ohm cabs in parallel will split the 500 watts @4 ohms from the amp, each getting 250 w.
    You could get them re-coned. This is not entirely unheard of with the old 10 inch cones. But if you like the cabs, this will be the least expensive fix. Or you can buy new speakers for it. (Make sure you get the right ones for your cab/box)
    Alternatively you could get newer, better, lighter cabs. I have a couple of Baer ML112's that work great with my Eden heads. (WT800 and a WT400)
    Hope this helps. Good luck.
     
  8. Lowendtech

    Lowendtech Happily trending in my own peculiar direction. Supporting Member

    You've got to train yourself to ditch the enhance knob use. It kills your midrange so you can't hear yourself in a band mix, causing you to turn up the gain and master. It also boosts the lows robbing you of headroom and over taxes your speakers.
    I never have mine over 9:00 and mostly leave it off or at 8:00.
     
  9. 12bass

    12bass

    Jan 2, 2003
    Victoria, Canada
    Enhance set as above creates a huge mid scoop and bass boost. Yes, dialing it back (10:00 is usually lots) will provide more cut, more headroom, and will be easier on the speakers.

    Yes, the more drivers the merrier when it comes to power handling and high volume.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
  10. Tannerwr64

    Tannerwr64

    Oct 12, 2016
    Thank you 12Bass and Lowendtech I'm going to work with the enhance knob when I get home to try this out and hopefully it helps! Also would moving the great further from speaker relieve the noise of the speakers smacking on it?
     
  11. 12bass

    12bass

    Jan 2, 2003
    Victoria, Canada
    No point touching the grate unless it's pushed in. Those speakers are crying for mercy. I used to have a D210XLT and had creasing issues myself before I knew better; part of the issue is that the XLT box tuning is fairly high and the drivers are unloaded on the lowest fundamentals. No problem with my fEARful 15/6/1....
     
  12. Tannerwr64

    Tannerwr64

    Oct 12, 2016
    Ok thank you! Is there a 410 or 610 model for fearful cabs?
     
  13. Lowendtech

    Lowendtech Happily trending in my own peculiar direction. Supporting Member

    I dont think so.
    If you're looking for a multiple 10" driver cab, I might suggest a DNS 410. Stonkingly loud cab made by the guy that used to own and design all the Eden stuff. It'll work very well with your WT550. I had one and it rocked. It'd blow your old cabs away.
    David Nordschow's newer Co. DNA Amps.
     
    Eddie Ortiz and Rip Van Dan like this.
  14. Tannerwr64

    Tannerwr64

    Oct 12, 2016
    Ok I have heard great things about the DNS cabs ill look into it!
     
    Rip Van Dan likes this.
  15. bearhart74

    bearhart74 Supporting Member

    Feb 26, 2009
    Cut some bass with the EQ section of the WT or controls on your bass and see if that helps.
    Make sure your not boosting freq's with the bass controls and cutting the same freqs with the amp (or the inverse)
    If you need to get new cabs Acme B4 4 ohm + Eden WT550 is heaven. 2 of them would be sick and the WT550 can handle 2 ohms.
     
  16. Tannerwr64

    Tannerwr64

    Oct 12, 2016
    Noted. And thanks for the suggestion. I know the amp says it can run a 2ohm load with 750 watts, but is there any risk to the head or cabinets at all when using the lowest load?
     
  17. Lowendtech

    Lowendtech Happily trending in my own peculiar direction. Supporting Member

    It'll probably run hotter and the fan will kick in more often but if the amp is in good shape, it should be fine.
     
    Eddie Ortiz likes this.
  18. bearhart74

    bearhart74 Supporting Member

    Feb 26, 2009
    WT550 = 750 watts into a 2 ohm load just requires you to do a little math.
    If you have 2 cabs in the chain that present a 2 ohm load to the amp then each cab gets 375 watts.

    Whats the rating on the cabs?

    if your talking about the Acme's they will take everything you can throw at them.
     
  19. Tannerwr64

    Tannerwr64

    Oct 12, 2016
    Chances are that for the time being I will only be able to get one cabinet, probably a 410 but maybe a 610. Would it be better to get a 4 ohm or an 8 ohm model? Im looking for the ability to get more volume, so im assuming the 4 ohm, and it would still give me the option of adding another 8 ohm or 4 ohm cab in the future
     
  20. Tannerwr64

    Tannerwr64

    Oct 12, 2016
    Also, when the output limit light flashes on the wt550, is that effected by the cabs or the amp itself? because it flashes occasionally when im only on half gain and half master
     
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