Questions about tempo, rhythm, beat, and being in the 'pocket'

Keeping a good tempo and making groove, while playing melody on a bass guitar is not a simple task.
My view is that I must have have groove when I play by myself. And, I must have a good tempo playing alone. Than comes the hard part - playing with human drummer, that sometimes rushes or drags.

My advice is to practise with metronome at very various tempos, and try to cover it perfectly. IMO playing fast is not important, because you can always simplify your bass line, and play less. Playing "in the pocket" is much more important and valued.

 

I don't think that keeping the tempo is easy for everybody who plays drums -- I've known plenty of drummers who gradually speed up without knowing it. And I've known plenty of drummers whose tempo is rock-solid and never changes unintentionally. It's the musician more than the instrument.

Regarding practicing on bass to keep the tempo steady -- you mention being comfortable at 80 but not at 90. Don't jump from 80 to 90. Go from 80 to 82, then to 84, then to 86, etc. And don't raise the number until you're just as comfortable at the new speed as you were at the slower speed.

Playing "in the pocket" will of course change from style to style -- sometimes you need to push the tempo just a bit (bebop) sometimes you need to lay way back (Basie band slow tunes).

The suggestion to use a metronome app where you can silence it periodically is a great one -- do it at a comfortable tempo so that if the metronome were constant you would have no problem being accurate, then set it to randomly stop for a few beats here and there and you should be able to be accurate during the pauses and still match it when it resumes after each pause.

In my opinion, though, nothing beats working with other musicians and recording the practice sessions so you can all hear if the tempo changes unintentionally. Sometimes it's such a subtle change that you don't notice it while it's happening but it can be glaringly obvious on playback.

 

Metronome has been mentioned...

Came to bass from rhythm guitar and thought my internal clock was pretty good. We only had a drummer in that band when we had a "paying" gig. The more I played with a drummer my opinion, about my internal clock, changed... Metronome or drum track. Drum track is what I needed.

We've not talked about timing and locking with the drummer for awhile. Listening and watching the drummer's kick drum foot pedal did more for my timing than anything I had used before. Looking over and seeing if I was still with his foot pedal was reassuring.

My point; drum tracks over metronome every time.

 

1. No.
2a. You listen and lock in with what you're hearing.
2b. Too wide open a question. There are whole books about it. People spend their whole lives figuring it out.
3a. No.
3b. Yes.
4a. If you don't know when you feel comfortable you have bigger issues.
4b. No.
4c. We aren't supposed to do anything. Each person is different.

 

It's worth considering that time / groove issues can come from several places: Poor ear for tempo, Poor physical execution, Over thinking, Poor rhythmic awareness

Poor ear for tempo
when a player simply can't keep an accurate beat in their head.
The cure is putting in time with the metronome.
Probably not your issue, since you claim no trouble with the drums...

Poor physical execution
When a player has not practiced the part they play enough, and struggles to get the fingers in the right spot at the right time.
The only cure is more practice with the part. I'd bet this is part of the issue for you.

Over thinking the execution
Similar to poor physical execution : they players mind is focused on what finger goes where and when, instead of focusing on the other elements of groove.
Same cure: more practice, plus keeping awareness of the other elements of a groove

Poor rhythmic awareness
The player simply doesn't know their eighth notes and sixteenth note figures, resets and ties, etc...
They have no idea which rhythmic subdivisions they are trying to hit.
You can't hit a target if you are ignorant of the target. (except by accident or habit)
The cure is to practice reading rhythm.

 

This is gonna sound like a stupidly simple suggestion but ... have you tried tapping your foot to keep time?

 

Super basic but it works. My fingers will sometimes want to rush, whereas my foot tends to keep steady time regardless. When you talk about recording, could it be that you're experiencing latency issues with your DAW?

 

1. Nope. I have better meter than some drummers I know.
2. Metronome!! Don't start with the tricks, just start with it always on. Run scales at slow speeds (~60bpm) to feel and hear all the space between beats. Play basslines you know by heart at different tempos. You can even sleep with a metronome under your pillow, just set it to a different tempo every night.
Then start using the metronome tricks. Have it beat only on 1 & 3, then just 2 & 4. Then just 1, just 2, just 3, just 4. Or try and put the metronome on the upbeat, the Ee or And. Subdivision is the best way I know to get and keep solid meter.
3. Nope. You need more practice.
4. Play the lick slower. 60 bpm. Really listen to what you're playing. String noise, sliding into notes, poor executions. When you have it absolutely perfect at 60 bpm, bring it up to 70. Same thing. Then 80, then 90.
It's easy to play things fast because the speed helps mask "or justify" poor technique. Playing things slow forces you to become aware of every aspect of your playing.

 

Do an internet search for "latency with DAW" and you'll come up with lots of information on the subject.

 

Not to speak ill of OP, but I've never met a drummer who didn't think they had perfect meter. The best most solid drummers I know are very aware of their imperfect meter and never stop working on it.

 

Both those things can't be true.

 

Fair. I'll preface it this way, IME, the best drummers are aware of meter issues, while most of the worst think they already have perfect meter.
What I rather mean, is that no musician is ever above metronome work. Ever.

 

Don't anticipate the beat! The drum plays ON TOP OF the beat, and we play in the back pocket of that - which is to say, still part of it, but like a billionth of a second behind the drum. You don't want to take away from the percussive attack of the drum - you want to sound like your note came from the drum. YMMV and of course it all depends on everything, but practicing that with both metronome and drummer has led to some pretty legendary jams personally!

 

Converting from guitar to bass made my tempo better, and made me a better listener while playing. Made me focus on what the melody is as well as listen to what the drummer was doing. And, for me to stay with the groove, I need to move my body to the beat. To make playing and learning bass more enjoyable, I play along to songs I like. This helps me learn technique, and helps me develop better listening skills. Once I can play the song, I record myself with the song to see what areas I need to work on. And then, I listen to the isolated bass track to see how clean it is, and if I'm giving each note its value.