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Quick question about running two combo amps.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by SmokinJoe992, Oct 11, 2018.


  1. Jack

    Jack

    Sep 6, 2003
    Newcastle, UK
    No you can't. Please never, ever, do this. Connecting two power stages together like this asking to release the magic smoke in the best case and fatal in the worst case.
     
    MattZilla and Jim Carr like this.
  2. ^^^^ this^^^^
    Options! You can split your signal and go "stereo" with different kinds of pedals; A/B/Y switcher, pedals that support stereo out, etc. You also have the option for a one clean and one dirty amp and blend them or have both the same settings. Worst case you have a backup.
     
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  3. I understand the ‘get a head and cab’ you will be more versatile thing. However, I like the convenience of a combo, and 75% of the time the combo alone is all I need.
    I am very intrigued by this split signal concept, and the ability to have one clean and one dirty. What pedals or other gadgets are used to accomplish this?
     
  4. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2006
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
    What could possibly go wrong? The reason you didn't think of it is that perhaps you are not crazy?

    Hauling 4 boxes and safely stacking them (how to reach all the controls???) is not a reasonable chore. The combined weight would be over 80 lbs. Be sure to bring a ladder.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  5. Jack

    Jack

    Sep 6, 2003
    Newcastle, UK
    Still less than an SVT head...
     
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  6. Gravedigger Dav

    Gravedigger Dav SUSPENDED Supporting Member

    Mar 13, 2014
    Fort Worth, Texas
    You wouldn't really notice any volume increase. It would sound very similar to using the 2x10 extension because you are pushing more air. The cab is less expensive and would be less hassle. The only advantage would be a built in backup plan.
    Now you need to get over to the Fender Rumble Club thread in the Amps & Cabs forum, get yourself a number, and find out there is a ton of very useful information for those enlightened enough to appreciate the Fender Rumble.
     
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  7. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2006
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
    The 2 questions I always ask myself are: 1) Do I have a musical purpose in mind or is it just GAS? 2) What is the most robust and flexible way to do what I have in mind?

    IME, wet and dry signals are often mixed before being sent to an amp. The complexity of 3 sets of EQ (don't forget your instrument EQ), several pedals, and possible phase issues if the combo's are actually separated to simulate "stereo," sort of screams out (to me) for the KISS principle, aka Occam's Razor (lex parsimoniae). Simple is better, IMHO.

    I'd go over to the Effects Forum and take a long look before spending.
     
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  8. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2006
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
    And we all love carrying those, don't we? ;)
     
    SmokinJoe992 likes this.
  9. JACink

    JACink

    Mar 9, 2011
    Spain
    Are you calling me crazy????

    2000px-SMirC-crazy.svg.
     
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  10. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2006
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
    Nah....:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
     
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  11. So physics: 700 Watts > 500 Watts. The two combos together will be louder than one combo with an extension cabinet. While an additional 200 Watts above 500 is less than a 2 dB increase, you will be able to *plainly* hear that, especially at high volumes it would be completely obvious.

    The JND is about 1 dB, going up 2 or 3 dB is not “barely noticeable” unless you are starting at 30 or 40 dB or something really quiet. TB needs to stop spreading this false narrative.

    And 200 Watts - some people *gig* with 200 Watts! It is not negligible.
     
    SmokinJoe992 likes this.
  12. Depending on budget and what you already have available, I see at least two concepts:
    1) A/B/Y pedal - Morley, EHX, Boss, Radial, Lehle and Orange to name a few. You get to choose amp A, amp B or both Y (A&B). BOS LS-2 works quite nicely for this. I tried several brands before finally settling on the Orange Detonator. I ran into some grounding issues that their isolating transformer cleaned up nicely for me. Others have found Radial and Lehle work equally well in this regard or don't experience any grounding issues. YMMV. The Amp Detonator ABY – Orange Amps
    2) Stereo out pedal - TC electronics, EHX, MXR, Boss and many many more. I think many DI pedals also have multiple outputs, such as an affected signal and a dry/pass-through signal. Very simple and similar to the switch, but always on. One mono input and send an output to each amp. Here's an example. mimiq.
     
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  13. tjh

    tjh Supporting Member

    Mar 22, 2006
    Minnesota
    Having suggested an option such as the Lehle splitter, I also subscribe to the simple is better school of thought … If throwing all kinds of pedals, etc in front of a two amp type set up, it would get far too complicated for my interest and well above my pay grade … I was simply tossing out an option that the OP had not thought of for 'potential', if the two combo pursuit was in essence inevitable … I carry a very portable option similar, two tiny heads, and two very light cabs, and it affords a great deal of modularity for what I do … Simple is always best for me as well, but there are also ways to combine that thinking with prepared for ?? ..
     
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  14. Rip Van Dan

    Rip Van Dan Supporting Member

    Feb 2, 2009
    Duvall, WA
    That's not normally done when slaving an amp. Slaving an amp means you run a line from the master amp to the effects-in of the slave amp bypassing the slave amps preamp and only using the power section. Yes, you still have to adjust the master volume on both amps separately on most amps (don't need to do this when slaving from my Eden amps), but you are bypassing the preamp of the slave amp.

    You could certainly split your signal from your bass, although that might require a signal booster to work well with two amps. Then you could use different EQ. Chris Squire used to do that running one amp with distortion and one clean...seems like a bit of overkill now for something that can be dialed in with a wet/dry or "mix" control on many amps. Still it's possible.
     
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  15. I used to do it with my Zoom B3 into a pair of GK MB115s, one clean and one slightly dirty.
     
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  16. What I am getting out of this so far is:

    1) Others have done and are doing similar things, so it is not a crazy idea.
    2) While there seems to be some disagreement, the consensus seems to be that there would be some increase in volume, but it would not be significant.
    3) the combo is almost exactly the same size and weight as the 210 extension. Running an instrument cable from the FX send of one to the FX return of the other Combo does not seem like any more trouble than plugging a speaker cable into an extension cab. So convenience would be pretty even.
    4) There are some advantages to having two identical amps available (backup, keeping them at different locations etc.)
    5) Lastly, I have not needed to dive deep into effects in any of my current bands, but I like the idea of experimenting more with them down the road and the wet and dry amp thing is interesting.

    Lots of great stuff so far. Interested to hear more thoughts regarding this.
     
  17. Thornton Davis

    Thornton Davis

    Dec 11, 1999
    Toronto
    Do yourself a favour and trade the Rumble 500 in for a GK MB210-II (500 watts) and a 210MBP (500 watts) powered extension cabinet. The preamp in the MB210-II will control both cabs while the amp in each cab will drive the speakers. They connect via a simple SwitchCraft connector.

    With this combination you have flexibility of using the single MB210-II for smaller gigs and the ability to add the MBP210 for larger ones or if you simply need to hear yourself better as they stack together nicely.

    Food for thought.

    TD
     
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  18. I have absolutely loved every GK amp I have ever played, and I have a GK MB212 (original silver grille version) that I like alot. I have considered getting rid of all my Fender stuff and going all GK on several occaions. However, I like the Fender Rumble stuff a lot also and the fact that they tend to be a lot cheaper keeps me in the Rumble camp for now.
    My only issue with the GK combos is that the matching extension cabs cost almost as much as the amp. So, yet again, why not just buy two amps?
     
  19. JGbassman

    JGbassman Supporting Member

    May 31, 2011

    I'm well aware of what slaving an amp means and how to do it. I too am aware of many preamps and devices made that you can run a wet/dry signal without running two separate amps. I was just responding to the OP, giving him different options.

    Running an A/B/Y box to two separate amps adds a versatility he couldn't get with just a extension speaker cab, it had not been mentioned, so I thought I would tip him in that direction. Just another option to ponder. I usually bring a backup amp to gigs, where this would additionally solve that issue as well.
     
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  20. Rip Van Dan

    Rip Van Dan Supporting Member

    Feb 2, 2009
    Duvall, WA
    Hey JGbassman,
    I didn't mean to be insulting if that's how you took it. Was not my intention. My apologies if you took it as insulting. I have slaved amps a lot, so thought I would chime in.:thumbsup:

    One of the advantages on my Eden amps is that I can use the headphones out to slave amps (can't do this with the Eden class D amps). It's a hotter line than the effects out and once you have initially set the volume on both amps to get a good mix, changing the master-volume setting on the master amp makes the same change on the slave - no need to go to the slave and mess with the slave's master-volume to re-balance everything.

    Also, using the headphones out on an Eden amp doesn't require a Y-cord to send the effects-out signal to both the slave amp and back into the master amp, just a simple instrument cord out of the headphones of the master and into the effects in of the slave amp. Don't think there are a lot of amps that do that, but worth checking with your amps manufacturer to see if its feasible.
     

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