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R.I.P Rock Guitar Heroes????

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by rickbass, Aug 30, 2001.


  1. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    For quite some time now, it seems like in all the current hard rock, a.k.a."nu metal" (which isn't considered "metal," I know), bands I hear, all the guitarists are pedal-dependent, detuned chord bangers. I can't think of one who has played a solid, masterful, guitar break or guitar hook. Admittedly, it isn't the current style.

    Stuff from the 60's-70's sounds out of time now, and lord knows the hair, makeup, the outfits of the 80's bands look really silly now, and 90's grunge just got too depressing. But the many of the guitarists in these bands sure let you know they could deliver the goods.

    I don't consider myself a nu metal expert, but I often hear bands such as Puddle of Mud, Drowning Pool, Mudvayne, Limp Bizkit, Korn, Fear Factory, Rival Schools, Soulfly, My Dying Bride, System of a Down, et al and I never think, "Jeez, that guitar is hot!" :eek:

    There is no hidden agenda in this thread. I just would like to hear if anyone thinks (or knows) if these guys are really solid players who can pick a coherent melody or scorch a fretboard if they were given the chance? :confused: Even some of the old punk guitarists seem like virtuosos compared to the guitarists in these bands.
     
  2. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck

    Apr 21, 2000
    Atlanta / Macon (sigh)
    Gallien Krueger for the last 12 years!
    I've met Wes Borland, and the man can play. Just like Ryknow, and Jason Newsted, yes, Jason is a VERY good bassist, they have to "dumb down" their playing just to play a genre that will allow them to make a living. One of my best friends plays for Rehab, and another good friend of mine plays for Arrested Development. They are both jazz MONSTERS. Trust me, these guys simply amazing, but they ain't gonna make too much money doing jazz, so you gotta go with what's paying the bills. I think that's the case with SOME of these "Nu Meatal", or "Heavy" guitarists. But on average most of them are just hacks. For every Ryknow or Wes, there are about 10 Fieldys!!
     
  3. I happen to like the mudvayne guitarist.
    I'm a fan of System Of A Down, but I agree the guitar isn't awe inspiring, but I love the music as a whole.
    Don't get me wrong, I love heaps of differen't styles, like funk and jazz, rock, even classical so I'm not just a nu metal monkey, but I've got to say, as a whole, that the nu metal sound is very varied and more groove related than traditional metal, it's music to move to rather than listening to then saying 'wow, that was a mighty fine 2 minute guitar scale, er, I mean solo' :D
    Some new metal guitarists are very good, they may not show there whole talent. But I admit some suck, hard.
    But I will say that in general they are more varied, and more willing to experiment.
     
  4. Rickbass,

    While I usually agree with most of the things you say, Rival Schools has no place in the list of bands you mentioned. They are so far removed from the list of bands you name, you may as well have listed Britney Spears in there.

    PS - Just wondering, the record just came out Tuesday. Where did you hear the band? I've had a bootleg copy for months, but I was always a Quicksand fan, and keep up on those things. And yes, both Walter and Ian from Rival Schools are very good guitar players, and create very well-crafted songs.
     
  5. oddentity

    oddentity

    Nov 20, 2000
    Philly
    I'm not sure Tool should be classified with the bands you mentioned, but their guitarist, Adam Jones, is a master of the tasteful solo. The way he can lay a little riff here and there says to me that he really knows how to phrase perfectly for the song.
     
  6. Christopher

    Christopher

    Apr 28, 2000
    New York, NY
    As Warwicknut indicates, I think a lot of guys are hiding a lamp under a bowl, to use the biblical metaphor. Borland can play, as can Tom Morello, Billy Corgan etc. But market conditions aren't right for guitar heroes, G3 notwithstanding.
     
  7. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    Matthew - The reason I mentioned Rival Schools is because many of the big retailers will be selling/are selling their CD in the "nu metal" category. Plus, a few nu metal websites I've seen claim them for their own.

    A friend runs the Communications program with a radio station at a local university and he got his hands on a promo copy. I didn't get to hear all the tracks but those I did lacked any guitar to write home about.

    But, I agree with you - they don't seem to fit well with those other bands. They don't seem as commercial. I think they may be one of these hard- to-categorize bands that gets stuck into a genre out of convenience. Plus, there is actual singing in their music.......WHAT A CONCEPT!!!! :rolleyes:
     
  8. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    IME, they're not. They usually get thrown into "Metal" or we-don't-know-what-to-call-it, I mean, "Alternative."

    They are so often mentioned in the same breath with King Crimson, I can't see them being classified as "nu metal." And so much nu metal is beat heavy, as jordan mentioned.

    Anyway, I don't want this thread to turn into a squabble over classifications. To me, genres are for the Grammys and retail stores.
     
  9. All the guys in the band come out of the late 80's New York Hardcore scene. Walter was in Gorilla Biscuits and then Quicksand, Sammy played drums in almost every NYHC band at some point, Ian was in Burn, and Cache was in Into Another. What they really are is a very melodic post-hardcore band. They have nothing in common with the Nu-Metal bands except that they play guitars. And while the instrumentation may not be anything to write home about it, there are no bad songs on that record. I think the biggest problem Island may have with marketing them is that their initial primary audience consists of people like me, who have followed the careers of the members for the last fifteen years and are into that kind of music. They are no going to appeal to the teen set because the songs are not angry and agressive, there's no palm muting, no seven string guitars, and no gutteral screaming. But I hope the record does well, because it is extremely good.

    But yeah, classifications don't really mean anything, and usually end up making things more confusing. In the end, it's all just rock music.

    Anyone interested should check out www.rivalschoolsunite.com
     
  10. Captain Awesome

    Captain Awesome

    Apr 2, 2001
    PDX
    Well, it's good times for the recording industry because they can randomly pick out any mediocre angst rock garage band (which i'm sure there are a lot of) and market it as nu metal.

    I hear a lot of people complain about how nu metal sucks, and I think actual riffing and soloing will make a comeback soon.
     
  11. Bass-A-Nova

    Bass-A-Nova Guest

    Nov 2, 2000
    Cleveland
    I sure hope so. I'm of the camp that thinks the nu metal guitarheads are better than the current state of affairs lets them appear to be. In the meantime, I simply can't take the dark, dropped tuned sounds of most of these bands for more than five minutes. :oops: Even Nirvana was more uplifting than the Mudvaynes of the world, because at least the music had a workable beat. Rick - I wonder how many slings and arrows you'd be receiving if you had started this thread in one of the areas where the under 20 crowd hangs out? Not to 'dis the young 'uns, but I wish they'd find better heroes than Fieldy et. al.
     
  12. Bass-A-Nova

    Bass-A-Nova Guest

    Nov 2, 2000
    Cleveland
    BTW in defense of some of the bands in this thread, i.e. Tool, Mudvayne, etc. - if you stripped them of their theatrics (which sometimes overshadow their musical abilities), you'd see bands with a h*** of a lot more talent than, say Kiss or Poison. If you stripped the latter two bands of their bells and whistles during their heydays, you'd have --- well, big gobs of hair and lipstick.
     
  13. As far as newer guitar players go, I like Mike Einziger from Incubus a lot. They had quite a few solos on their first album, Fungus Amongus, and there were a few on S.C.I.E.N.C.E. as well. Not to mention that he uses a lot of cool chord voicings.
     
  14. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    Bass - That's an interesting "if". Maybe I could put it up at one of the tab discussion sites. :D

    I'm kind of flameproof though, in that my question leaves the possibility open that there may be untapped talent. It's purely from a "I don't know" vantage point. From the younger guys around here, I think most of `em are smart enough to take that into consideration. But I knew when I put that up I knew there was a higher than usual flammability potential. (No, I'm not a WWF fan).

    All it takes is one poster to say "(insert name) SUXX!!!!" and the testosterone comes out. :rolleyes:
     
  15. "Nu-metal" is very heavy on rhythm. Honestly, I think the talent pool has moved from lead guitarists to bassists and drummers, and I like that. I would much prefer to hear a meaty riff with a rhythmically tricky bassline than some wanker shredding over eighth-note low E roots.

    I can't stand the "I-hate-my-parents" lyrics (go see a damn shrink!), but there is often a rhythmic sense to these bands that was severely lacking in hair metal and grunge. Limp Bizkit is a perfect example: Sam Rivers and John Otto are one of the tighter rhythm sections out there today. They can get butts moving and heads banging at the same time, and that's something that I can admire. The same goes for bands like Mudvayne or Incubus. For this I credit the bands that were a big influence on nu-metal--Sepultura, Tool, Faith No More, and Alice In Chains come to mind.

    Sure, there are some truly awful bassists and drummers in some of these bands, but the bad far outweight the good.
     
  16. hey everyone i'm back.....hope yall didn't miss me too much....oh if you dont know me i'm sorry e mail me sometime i'll be nice but anyways, i was just wantin to say ummmm...... oh yeah um alot of rock guitarist or "nu metal" as you call it can really suck.....like yeah it can suck and well ummmm i have heard several guitarist as it has already been mention play off stage and they can just tear it up.....for example wes borland and head and munky from korn and i can say the don't use all their ability on stage so i guess what i'm tryin to say is that "nu metal" is good music depending on the group but even if it is easy and sololess it can still sound good, you don't have to fly all over the neck to sound cool..... :eek:
     
  17. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    daddy - No doubt, complexity doesn't necessarily mean good music by any means. Simplicity can be quite difficult, (thinking of some Massive Attack bass lines). So, I didn't mean to infer that, in case that's how you read my original thread starter. Maybe it was one of the other contributors.

    The "but" is - song after song, group after group, it's like, "Could we just break the monotony for one song and let the guitarist or somebody step into the spotlight, fer chrissakes! Can you actually use more than the first five frets?"

    I took guitar lessons for three years before I gave it up for bass, as a kid, (not a teen ).
    I got a basic understanding of the instrument and I see/hear quite a few of these bands and know I can play the guitar parts. I think a lot of people would just appreciate these guys more if they got opportunities to show they're the real deal instead of appearing to be almost as lousy as I am on the guitar.
     
  18. I know what you're talking about, Rick. Many of these bands think they can tune down to "Z#" and just do a bunch of one finger detuned power chords and think it's original. I don't want it to turn into an 80's wankfest sort of thing, but I liked it in the 60's and 70's when groups would try to be innovative and not try to sound like other popular groups.
     
  19. I think it's just the swinging of the pendulum.

    It seems that whenever a style of music becomes too popular, the pendulum swings the other way and the next big thing to come along is totally the opposite. I think a lot of the kids growing up listened to the shredfest that happened in the late eighties and early nineties said, "I want to do anything they're not doing."

    I do think that some of the recent nu-metal can be a little boring at times guitar-wise but I do like the fact that the groove is more important than in some of the more traditional metal. It would be cool to be able to mesh the best of both worlds.
     
  20. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member Administrator

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    i agree with bassin'. i think that eventually, folks will get sick of the styles of the day, and i wouldn't be surprised if some enterprising musicians brought back the concept of the guitar solo to popular rock.

    i think it's almost destined to happen. popular music is a search for what's new by people with very short memories. so, stylistically, the old stuff is bound to come back again - it's happened before, it will happen again.