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Rack-Mounted gear help?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by kodie, Jan 28, 2017.


  1. kodie

    kodie

    Jan 28, 2017
    Wasn't sure if this was the right place to ask so sorry if it isn't.

    I bought my setup off of a guy I know and have had it for the past year and it's been working great. I recently decided that I wanted to organize the cables as well hook everything up in a way that my tuner's mute function worked as it didn't work the way I got it.

    Unfortunately I feel like I'm way over my head and would just like some help deciding on the best order to hook everything up or what should hook into each other.

    Here's my setup:

    Nady Audio PCL-810 Power Conditioner
    BBE 482i Sonic Maximizer
    Tech 21 SansAmp RBI
    Korg Toneworks DTR-2 Digital Tuner
    Ampeg SVT-3PRO
    Ampeg SVT-810E

    Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
     
  2. Bass to tuner,
    To sansamp, choice of
    padded level out to front of amp or line level to fx loop preamp return,
    To cab.

    Maximiser in bin.
     
  3. Dave W

    Dave W

    Mar 1, 2007
    White Plains
    Why have the RBI when you've got the SVT-3?
     
    rickwebb, Gearhead17 and basscooker like this.
  4. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    How do you get a padded level out from those Sansamp rack units? I thought you could only pad the inputs and the Sansamp DI out? Or do you just manage it via level? Really interested in this, as it's been one of the main reasons for me to use the DI variants even with a rack - feel like I must be overlooking something obvious.

    Aside from that personal question, Downunderwonder nailed it IMO.
     
  5. It's been some years since I was using an RBI so my memory is hazy. There is quite a smorgasbord of inputs and outputs and iirc the main blended out has a pad control on it but I may well have that confused with the rear input.

    The other other option I neglected to mention is using the RBI as footswitched fx unit, which could be replaced by a pedal. Either way it would go bass to sansamp to front of Ampeg and gains would need to be well regulated.
     
  6. Toss the Sonic Maximizer or sell it to some guitarist.

    Not sure if the Sansamp is really necessary since you have an actual Ampeg preamp in your SVT-3.

    For best results with the SVT-3, ignore the input clip light.
     
    rickwebb, baxter_x and Jim Carr like this.
  7. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Yeah, I just looked over the manual, and I think you might be mistaking the rear input pad as you noted. It's a shame that this feature isn't included. There are plenty of mystery backline nights where I'm provided only a combo with no send/return and have to use my Sansamp directly into the amp input. Without much time to fiddle with gain, having a button to switch between instrument and line level simplifies things a lot in those instances. Your note gave me hope that maybe I was missing something, as a rack mounted version would be more convenient for me, but I guess that isn't the case. :( Oh well, sorry for the tangent - derail over.
     
  8. kodie

    kodie

    Jan 28, 2017
    Can I ask why you recommend getting rid of the maximizer? To tell you the truth I'm not even sure what it does, it was just part of the rack gear that I bought.

    I have zero idea, I'm kind of a rack-gear noob and just bought the gear like this.

    I have absolutely no idea what any of this means lol What's a "padded level"?


    So what I'm gathering from this is the maximizer and the sansamp are pretty pointless with my setup?
     
  9. Sansamp may not be, but the sonic maximizer is a BS device probably dreamed up by a marketing department. The two knobs on it are just a bass boost and a treble boost, so it ends up being a mid scoop. Worse, there's no true bypass, so if it's in your chain and isn't on, it's cutting out a lot of your low end.
     
    Gearhead17 and Jim Carr like this.
  10. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    First up, padding usually just means a decrease in level "hotness", usually noted as a certain decibel decrease (say, -10db). Reason for this on preamp outputs, is that instrument level (from your bass) is usually lower than line level (the level that a power amp or other rack gear usually likes to see). Rack units in general output at line level, so they can work best with other rack equipment including power amps. That same hot signal is usually too hot by default for another amp's preamp input that is expecting a signal directly from the bass - so the pad usually brings it down to compatable levels. Notice all of the usuallys and other qualifiers, this is just rule of thumb stuff and there are other workarounds.

    As for the RBI being pointless with the SVT3 pro, I'm not as familiar with those solid state poweramp SVTs, but when playing live it can be useful for a number of reasons to use a Sansamp with another great sounding amp - I'd say the two main ones are to have consistent tone no matter what volume, but also to have more control over what goes front-of-house when playing live vs. what you get on stage. I use a Sansamp with my rig for both those reasons.
     
    Sartori likes this.
  11. tedsalt

    tedsalt Supporting Member

    Aug 5, 2010
    Kansas City
    svt-3pro tuner out (on rear panel) to korg dtr-2
    use the mute button on the front of the amp to mute for tuning

    preamp-wise, 3 options -

    1) run the rbi into the svt input. adjust preamp setings on both to taste.

    2) run the rbi on its own into the effects return of the svt. adjust rbi settings to taste.

    3) run the svt-3pro on it's own for awhile. adjust svt preamp settings to taste.

    I'd imagine you can
    google site:talkbass.com svt-3pro settings
    google site:talkbass.com sansamp rbi settings

    play with each of these until you find what you like best.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  12. bbh

    bbh Supporting Member

    Sep 27, 2011
    I would see if you like the sound w/ out BBE 482i Sonic Maximizer & Tech 21 SansAmp RBI. They shouldn't be necessary w/ this setup. For me, I'd sell these 2 units off and hide the cable for the head to the tuner by using rt. angle jack on the head and dumping the cable into the rack. That way, you cancalways leave that plugged in when you cover it. I'd take my guitar cable and leave that hooked up direct to the tuner also dumping the cable in the rack for moving / shipping.
    However, in my opinion (I am a tone freak) that tuner will probably cloud you sound a touch so the other route is to just plug your bass into the head and into the tuner only when needed. So you have to walk to your rack to tune. Not a problem unless you are in a show band.
    best wishes figuring it out.
     
  13. Jeff Scott

    Jeff Scott Rickenbacker guru.......... Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2006
    Toss both the Nady and the BBE. Neither are necessary and they just add a combination of weight, clutter, confusion, and degradation to sound quality. May as well toss the existing rack and get a smaller one as you just saved 2 rack spaces.

    YWIA.
     
    Sartori likes this.
  14. kodie

    kodie

    Jan 28, 2017
    Thank you for all of the information and suggestions, it really is helpful.

    So right now I have it setup like this:

    Bass output jack > Sansamp input jack on front
    Sansamp "Sansamp Output" jack > SVT-3PRO "Power Amp In" jack

    and then SVT-3PRO "Tuner out" > Tuner In on back

    This eliminates the maximizer but I'm still unable to mute my sound using the mute button on the tuner or the SVT-3PRO
     
  15. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Yup, the tuning mute only mutes the preamp of the SVT3 Pro, and doesn't work when you use the power amp in. You need to go into the SVT3 input for the SVT3 mute to work. Or go tuner first as previously recommended and use that to mute the signal.

    Edit for stronger recommendation: in this type of scenario, I'd highly recommend going tuner first. If concerned about tone, test it with the tuner in line, and tuner excluded. If you can tell the difference, I'll eat my hat.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  16. Jeff Scott

    Jeff Scott Rickenbacker guru.......... Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2006
    I have had 2 Korg DTR-1 tuners that I bought in the late '90s (I still have one of them); no issues with change of tone when running through it to the amp. I just saved a hat! :smug:

    WW-Amp-In-Rack-Oa-1200-01.
     
    kap'n kro likes this.
  17. Kro

    Kro Supporting Member

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Ha, I've used plenty of those myself without being able to notice the difference, so I was feeling pretty safe ;). I don't discount that there may be a very very small difference. I don't even discount that those with super-trained ears might be able to hear it when focusing on it when played solo, but for all intents and purposes, I'd challenge anybody to blindly be able to tell the difference in a band setting.

    OP, maybe I should have asked this before anything else, but are you using this setup to play out at all? If so, what are the venues like? What kind of music? Building a rack is usually a very personal experience that enables the user to pick and choose the exact electronics they absolutely need - and usually at that point, since they know why they absolutely can't do without that certain piece of gear, they know where they want to put it and how they want to use it.

    In thinking about this more, unless you have some specific gigging needs (happy to keep helping if so), it might be best to cut down to just the tuner, amp, and power strip for the time being while you get a feel for the amp itself. Don't sell any of the other pieces (well, maybe the Sonic Maximizer if I'm to pile on), and then when you feel like you and the amp are best friends, you can start assessing what you're missing and add on from there. Who knows, maybe the RBI is the missing piece of the puzzle, maybe it really is the Sonic Maximizer - or maybe it's something else. At that point, the rack will become "your rack" and not just the rack you purchased off of a guy you know.
     
  18. the push button on the front of the RBI does a pretty good mute. Is there no tuner send on the RBI? Use the uneffected output to the tuner, should still have a signal there when front muted.
     
  19. Why not just put the Sansamp in the effects loop?
     
  20. tedsalt

    tedsalt Supporting Member

    Aug 5, 2010
    Kansas City
    In all actuality, OP should try it both ways. In the effects loop, in front of the svt input goosing the svt preamp, and also directly into the effects return. Hey wait, that's three different ways. Four when you include running the svt by its lonesome.
     

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