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Radial JDI Low Output

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by Kelloggsy, Dec 9, 2018.


  1. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    Hi guys,
    I hope you guys have run into the same problem and found the solution:

    We have this PA to Instrument Chain:
    Behringer XR12 PA - Radial JDI - Keeley Bass Limiter (compressor) - Active Bass

    Problem is we have to crank the volume up to the maximum in the PA to hear the bass Signal. Nothing unusual in the bass itself, Bass Volume is up to 75%+.

    On another occasion I used a PZ-PRE and Acoustic Guitar combo. We did not have to crank the volume up and could hear everything. With the JDI-Bass we have this low quiet volume problem.

    Thoughts/Answers?
    Please an answer if possible.
     
  2. Mo'Phat

    Mo'Phat Supporting Member

    Oct 1, 2003
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Take the Keeley out of the chain for now.
    Go Bass, JDI, Board.

    Make sure the merge button and 15db pad buttons are both out for now.

    Try a different xlr.

    See if that helps.
     
    Al Kraft likes this.
  3. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    Will wait until next month to test again. Another Bass player has the same setup -without a DI- and volume works fine for him for some reasons.
     
  4. Mushroo

    Mushroo Supporting Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    Massachusetts, USA
    In addition to @Mo'Phat's excellent advice:

    It is normal for the JDI (passive) to be much quieter than the PZ-PRE (active preamp with up to +12db boost). So that in and of itself does not indicate a problem.

    I'm not very familiar with the XR12. Are you using one of the channels with a mic preamp? Does it have a mic/line switch? Make sure it is switched to mic and not line. If there is a "trim" knob then adjust it as needed.

    Here is an easy test you can try: Plug your bass directly into to the XR12 and do a sound check. Then add the JDI to the signal chain between your bass and the XR12. If the JDI is operating properly, then the signal should drop by about 12db (or 27db with the -15db pad).

    All other things being equal (using the same input, and no adjustment to any switches, sliders, knobs, or settings) it is normal and expected that your bass through the passive JDI will be quieter than your friend's bass plugged in directly. Passive DI's by their nature can only subtract signal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
    Zbysek and wvbass like this.
  5. bikeplate

    bikeplate Supporting Member

    Jun 7, 2001
    Upstate NY
    Might have a pad engaged somewhere
     
    Zbysek and Al Kraft like this.
  6. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    Yes I was thinking about the subtract-signal on the JDI, but also was thinking of other work-around without having to remove it from the chain.

    It should be on the mic line (XLR) but not sure if the XR12 has a digital switch somewhere in the controller, I think it was all default.
     
  7. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    "Mic/line" means a switch between mic level and line level, two levels of amplitude, both through the same XLR jack. If the input was set for line level, then the preamp would be switched off, resulting in quiet sound from the DI. XLR just describes the jack, not the level of signal it carries.
     
    Al Kraft likes this.
  8. Al Kraft

    Al Kraft Supporting Member

    May 2, 2016
    Northern Virginia
    I've never had a problem with my JDI even on a passive bass with 30 foot cable runs. I suspect something was not set correctly at the board and/or one or more of the JDI switches mentioned were inadvertently pressed.
     
    xroads likes this.
  9. bass12

    bass12 Say "Ahhh"... Supporting Member

    Jun 8, 2008
    Montreal, Canada
    I've had sound guys complain about not getting enough signal out of my JDI (this is when I've used a fairly low-output but perfectly functional active bass). I compared my JDI with another JDI at a friend's studio and mine was consistent with his, so nothing wrong with the unit. I switched to using a J48 with that bass and the complaints stopped. I now keep the JDI for my very high-output basses.
     
    Correlli likes this.
  10. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    Hey, I've got a fender precision deluxe (active switch) would it be categorised as high or low output? Because it's still quiet.
    Not sure if a pre-amp before the DI chain will fix this issue.
     
  11. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    I thought that at the beginning but all buttons were unpressed.
    What PA system are you using?
     
  12. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    Yeah checked the DI and the Pad button is unpressed (not engaged).
     
  13. Al Kraft

    Al Kraft Supporting Member

    May 2, 2016
    Northern Virginia
    I've used it with many systems from Mackie powered mixers to PreSonus mixers. Obviously there is a lot more than just the board input to consider though. I've even found that not all basses that have the same pick-ups will have identical output levels.
     
  14. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    I have 2 JDI’s for sound company use. I tend to put them on active basses or hot keyboards. Output levels are what I expect from passive DI’s. Maybe your gain structure at the board is skewed ? E.g reduce some hot channels and run the master on the board higher?
     
  15. Kelloggsy

    Kelloggsy

    Dec 9, 2018
    If I put a pre-amp pedal before the DI for a volume boost do you think it might help?
    JDI<—preamp mxt<—-compressor<—-active bass
     
  16. crguti

    crguti

    Feb 14, 2011
    Smurf Village
    check the XLR cable is actually not attenuating the signal.
     
  17. Mushroo

    Mushroo Supporting Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    Massachusetts, USA
    A preamp with +12db of boost should give you comparable output to the PZ-PRE.

    Or you could adjust the Trim control at the mixer by 12db.

    Six of one, half dozen of another. :)
     
  18. bass12

    bass12 Say "Ahhh"... Supporting Member

    Jun 8, 2008
    Montreal, Canada
    I'm not familiar with the preamp on the Fender so I can't say, unfortunately. A preamp pedal with a volume control/boost should help (you don't want to have to rely on boosting specific frequencies to increase volume so something like the Xotic RC Bass Booster would do the trick). If you're going to look at spending money on a pedal, however, you might want to just consider getting an active D.I. (e.g., the Radial J48). I should mention that sound guys were always able to make my JDI work in the end; I just got sick of hearing them ask if I had a pad engaged or if there was something going on with my signal chain and so on and so on. I figured it would be easier if I just used an active D.I. and since getting the J48 my sound checks have been a lot smoother.
     
  19. Al Kraft

    Al Kraft Supporting Member

    May 2, 2016
    Northern Virginia
    It certainly should. Obviously not all active basses are equal in their output, but something just seems odd here. I'm not familiar with your mixer but it sounds like the channel input you're plugging into is expecting a line level signal.

    Have you tried increasing the level on the compressor output? Also, you mentioned that the 15 dB Pad switch is in the out position, did you also check that the speaker switch on the other side is not pushed in? That adds in a 30 dB pad.
     
  20. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    Should not be necessary. My rule of thumb is active bass, Passive DI, Passive bass, Active DI.

    If the issue is that you can’t get enough gain at the board before channel distortion, if your master level out to the mains is set low, that means that some other channel is too using the gain on that channel will allow you to run the Master hotter ...

    And as suggested above, swap all the cables out in the bass signal chain, change the battery in the bass. See if all of a sudden things improve. I had some real weirdity on two gigs last weekend. My 44-01 workhorse bass just dropped out. Made a big pop once. I played 5 the rest of Friday night. Saturday night it all seemed fine for half a set then nothing. I swapped the battery and had to back off the channel volume as it was now much louder than the
    channel for my 5... apparently I waited just a little too long for the change...
     

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