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RC210 with or without the 18" ext cab

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Gabu, Nov 16, 2001.


  1. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    I ran across something funny tonight. Durring my bands practice I unplugged my 18, and ran full range into just the RC210's 10" speakers. It was loud, good deep lows (though I did not use my B at all tonight), and actually kind of sounded better.

    I need to try this with my other basses also, but I am wondering if I am getting anything at all out of biamping with the 18. I forget who it was, but someone mentioned that 200 hz is somewhere on the D string. That is the lowest you can biamp on the RC210. That means that the 10s get nothing but clicks and harmonics (cool rhyme!) and all the fundamental sound comes from the 18. I honestly don't think that rig is any louder with the 18.

    Maybe I should just sell the 18 and keep only the RC210?
     
  2. No.

    :D

    The crossover is 200 Hz, so the 18 is carrying the entire load of all the fundamentals of all strings. The 2x10 is carrying only the harmonics. Waste of 10s.

    Run both full range.
     
  3. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    I have the same rig. There is no way the RC210 combo can be as loud as if you add the 1x18 to it. The other thing to keep in mind is that the contribution of the 1x18 is much more pronounced at some distance from your rig because of the "throw" phenomenon. You might not notice its contribution up close. Try standing at least 10-15 feet away and compare. Of course, maybe (a) you don't need a lot of volume, and (b) you don't like deep bass, in which case, you may not actually need the 18.

    Bi-amping can work okay if you don't need a lot of volume. I couldn't get enough juice out of the R600 head to be heard adequately while biamping into those Carvin speakers, so I ran them full-range. Overall, it sounded better that way - and the 10's were doing more to cover the fundamentals - it had a better upper bass.

    If you like strong fundamentals at high volumes and use a 5-string, I strongly recommend against using the 2x10 by itself: it's not a good performer much below about 60-80 Hz.

    Again, I can highly recommend the combo by itself if you don't have a need for a lot of volume at low frequencies - I find it perfect for jazz gigs, for example.

    - Mike
     
  4. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    The 210 cab and the 18 are both 4 ohm cabs, so if I run them full range, together it will be running below the manufacturer recommendation of 4 ohms when bridging. Unless I was to make a serial cable to connect the two and run them full range at 8 ohms. What do you guys think?
     
  5. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    I had the exact RC210 combo.

    I eventually pulled the head out and kept the 210's at home and just used it as my practice cab.

    I hooked the head up (bridged) into a Peavey 115BXBW...until I got a Peavey 412TVX...which I use for gigs and the 210's for practice. The 412TVX eliminates any need for more than one cabinet for me. I used to bi-amp, but I found that I really gained very little through bi-amping and I always had and still have a better sound going full range.

    The head comes out easily and it is the same R600 head you can buy seperately. I just put the R600 head into a rack. The 210's are nice for practicing, on my own and with the band, but they were just not enough onstage.
     
  6. SRSiegel

    SRSiegel Guest

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    i have teh exact same rig, the RC210 with an 18. for one, the RC210 way underpowers the 18. im tryign to get my hands on a more efficient speaker cabinet. and yeah, i used to biamp, but discovered it was a waste of tens, to quote whoever already said that. id say run it full range. if you dont need the highs, i would say take the head out of the combo, and bridge it into the 18. thats closer to the wattage a power hungry 18 should have. i learned this. the only reason i dont do it is because i slap a lot, and so i need the highs. but for now, just run it full range. if you really need more volume, you can add an extermnal poweramp into the 18, and bridge the R600 into the 10's. i was considering this for a while, and i have borrowed a friends poweramp for the purpose (DCM2000) it was unbeliavable! nothing beats an 18 with 1000 watts behind it. cept maybe an 18 with 2000 watts...

    btw running your cabs in series will accomplish no great benefit. bridged at 8 ohms the R600 puts out 500 watts, which is the same if you run it stereo 4 ohms/side. so just leave yoru cabs hooked up the way they are, and push the "biamp/fullrange" button in, and then you can still have individual control over both cabs. very helpful.

    also an 18" speaker projects sounds better, i think... at a distance you might not be able to hear 10's, but an 18 is louder further away from the amp. (the "cone" of sound doesnt develop right away in front of bigger speakers)
     
  7. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    I agree with this.
    - Mike
     
  8. bizzaro

    bizzaro

    Aug 21, 2000
    Vermont
    Don't you have the R600 with that rig? You should have 4 jacks in the back and only the center two would be for bridgeing which when used would bring you down to 2 ohms. If you keep the speakers plugged into the outer ( furthest apart jacks) you aren't bridgeing even if you run full range. That should keep you at 4 ohms. Full range doesn't mean you are bridgeing the amps. It means that each output jack is sending the same signal to it's respective cab. Each amp knob will affect one cab or the other ( kinda like stereo) and the master will affect both cabs. You can get the manual on line from Carvin if you don't have it. Running full range with two 4 ohm cabs is fine. There is also a button in the back that you use when bridgeing. Make sure that it is in the correct position. Someone please correct me on this if I am wrong. :D
     
  9. SRSiegel

    SRSiegel Guest

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    no youre right gabu, however its important to note that you cannot bridge with 2 4 ohm cabs. the amp head will overheat, and bang! youll be in the market for a new amp. you can bridge at 4 or 8 ohms, but not 2 with the R600. your best bet is still to run full range stereo. i really dont wanna see some poot guy explode his R600...
     
  10. farboozle

    farboozle

    Apr 18, 2000
    Fairfax VA
    Running stereo cabs both in full range seem the way to go with my carvin R1000 (with the carvin 210 and my ten year old peavey 1516 (still tickin)). Although there is someone (forgive me for not remembering the name) who suggests throwing a capacitor in the preamp send amp return circuit to form a high pass filter. This would protect the 10s a little while still letting enough pass through. I bet searching for capacitor (sp?) will pick up his/her suggestions. I'm planning on trying this when I get a chance.
     
  11. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    Oh, sheesh!! I never realised that! I just assumed that when I went full range I should bridge also, so I always changed both switches, moved the 210 cable into the center jacks, and unplugged the 18. I didn't realise I could go full range and not bridge. Sheesh, I learn new stuff all the time here. :D

    *Boy... now I feel silly.*
     
  12. SONICATTACK

    SONICATTACK

    Sep 26, 2001
    in the sun
    I've experienced the same with my rig, although I don't have the 18 yet I did borrow one to see what the benifits would be. Powered by the head alone The volume aspect didn't change much. I then hooked up a mackie 1400i to it and the sound was much tighter and louder. It seems as if The wattage put out by the r600 isn't enough to efficiently reproduce the tone I like. So what I'm planning is to buy an QSC PLX 1602 when I purchace the 18". Plenty of power to translate what tones I'm dreaming of. Also the low cutt's on the amp seems to help tremendously.
     
  13. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Hi, farboozle - I believe you were referring to my recent post on this. If you're interested, do a search for "capacitor" (as you suggest) and my user name (MikeyD) in this forum. I've written about this idea quite a bit here. It was my way of tweaking the Carvin design to work just the way I wanted (without spending big bucks).
    - Mike
     
  14. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    If you bridge when you use the 2-10 alone, that probably explains why it sounds louder.
     
  15. sell the 18" and get the 8x10 :)
     
  16. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    Thanks for the tip, running full range not only exposed the missing volume, but also makes the amp sound a lot better. I was really surprised because I liked the sound before. But now that I understand what some of you have been saying all along, damn... I was missing a lot.

    Can I say again, I like my new Jazz 5 so much. That is definately "My" sound. :D
     
  17. Luis Fabara

    Luis Fabara

    Aug 13, 2000
    Ecuador (South America)
    Audio Pro - Ecuador
    In my particular case, I prefeer to run the R1000 Bi-amped into my Rl410T and Rl118
    It sounds more defined to me that way.

    On the other hand, on gigs I have used only the R1000 in Bridged mono into the Rl410T and it sounded louder and Tighter.
    Since the concert room was very "reververant" the absence of some of the real lows was unnoticeable, but as a trade I got very a very tight punchy sound that cut trough over all the stage mix monitors. I was extremely happy with the sound. (I did all this yesterday at a concert)

    I think I could get a better sound running bridged mono into (2) RL410T instead of using the Rl118 with the Rl410T in full range.
     
  18. A five string has a fundamental range from 30.7 HZ on the B string to 340 HZ for the high E on the G string so setting your crossover at 200 HZ is not wasting your tens. It is a little high though I think. I usually cross over at about 140 (give or take a few). The speaker cabs you're using can have a lot to do with where you set your cross over point. My Eden 2x10 box starts comming on really strong in the lower-mid range so I roll off everything below that and send it to my EV 2x15 cab. I let the Eden do the punching and the EV moves the furniture.