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real life Cab Spec's vs advertised Spec's

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Crockettnj, Sep 4, 2005.


  1. Crockettnj

    Crockettnj

    Sep 2, 2005
    North NJ
    Hey gang- Havin a good old time cruising through your old posts, as I am new here as of last week.

    Lots of good stuff, lots of specs listed, and lots of real life experiences.

    There is a noticeable LACK of comment on HARTKE gear here. It makes me question literally how much better the other gear is.

    Frame of reference-
    I have played through older Peavey 2x15's years ago, and then through a hartke TP210 and xl210, and then the hartke115, and lately through some custom built (not by me) EV 1x15 and 1x12 cabs.

    The Hartke 1x15 has noticeably deeper bass than any of the others listed. the EVcabs have great "growl" and are pretty damned loud, but its no where near as much low end extension as the Hartke 115.

    As I read about and shop for new gear, I am using my hartke as a frame of reference. Is it a f3 29hz cab as i have been led to believe, and if so, what kind of spl am I getting out of this running it with 180 watts (8ohm cab, powered by hartke 5000, 250 watts into 4 ohms, therefore ?? 180?? into 8 ohms).

    In short, does anyone have REAL LIFE specs on a hartke xl 115?


    Thanks.
     
  2. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    An 29 Hz f3 is rare even in hi-fi speakers, and unheard of in pro-sound, except with some very high end subs. A 29 Hz f10 is more likely. Your experience with Hartke, which uses relatively low sensitivity drivers, and EV, which uses some of the highest sensitivity drivers, isn't unusual. Lower sensitivity=higher Qts=deeper response. Higher sensitivity=lower Qts=less extension.

    The onetime benchmark EVM15B in an optimally tuned alignment had an f3 of 63Hz, with average sensitivity of 102dB. You can get an f3 of 39 Hz from a $50 Eminence Beta 10, but sensitivity will be only 90dB or so. Both low and loud is a rare combination, and usually comes only in a large and expensive package.

    I can't help with real life specs on the Hartke. Like the great majority of manufacturers they don't publish either SPL charts or T/S specs, and what they do claim for both sensitivity and frequency response is highly suspect.
     
  3. Crockettnj

    Crockettnj

    Sep 2, 2005
    North NJ
    Bill- hey thanks for the reply. It seems that my observations comparing the EV's and the Hartke 15 is based in reality (and physics!)

    I would appreciate anyone who has experience with a hartke 115xl and how it stacks up in terms of max SPL and low end extention.

    Hell, I think I just need to buy a SPL meter. Are they fairly accurate?
     
  4. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Yes, but basic meters won't tell you anything about frequency response. Your best bet for quick and easy yet accurate testing is a Phonic PAA2, if you've got $350 to spare.
     
  5. Crockettnj

    Crockettnj

    Sep 2, 2005
    North NJ
    350 to spare?! oh man, no.

    so, hypothetically if I had a signal generator and ran it into my amp and then plugged that into my cab, and had an SPL meter, it wouldnt be a useful way of determining the repsonse of my cab?
     
  6. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    That works fine. Even cheaper still, ditch the signal generator and burn yourself a CD of sine waves.

    If possible do the test outdoors to eliminate room acoustics. OR you can go the other way and measure it on stage at your regular gig (if you've got one). After all, that's where it counts.

    Wear ear plugs though! Once you get above 500Hz, the sound can get quite loud and ear piercing.
     
  7. Crockettnj

    Crockettnj

    Sep 2, 2005
    North NJ
    I like this idea. any suggestion as to how I could get a CD of sine waves?

    Thanks in advance
     
  8. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    Just a note, the free WinISD program includes a sinewave generator that works through your PC sound card. Indeed, the free RMAA software will measure the frequency response of your speaker if you have a "flat" microphone. If you trust your SPL meter to be flat, you can use it as a microphone via its monitor output.
     
  9. Crockettnj

    Crockettnj

    Sep 2, 2005
    North NJ
    The SPL meter i have access to is an old radio shack model, has been kept in good shape, and is analog (no outputs)

    I plan on wearing plugs and my shooting muffs and jsut sitting 1 meter in front of the speaker and reading/recording the SPL meter.

    I jsut need a sine wave CD.

    I can only use WIN isd online since i have a Mac (yeah yeah, i know)

    thanks
     
  10. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Yep, that's what I used to make the CD. I just used WinISD to play sine waves and I recorded them as wave files onto my computer.

    Then it's just a matter of burning the wave files to a CD, which I always seem to lose :) No matter though - once the sine waves file are on your PC, burning a new one only takes minutes.
     
  11. Monomer

    Monomer

    Jul 22, 2005

    BINK (on PSW) made a nice audio test cd, which is hosted on a couple of sites.

    do a search on prosoundweb.