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Real Time Bass Looping/Sampling

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by spikewolff, Oct 1, 2001.


  1. spikewolff

    spikewolff

    Oct 1, 2001
    Western PA
    Was wondering if any pedal systems existed that recorded various phrases and then played them back on a loop so in effect one could spontaneously compose several bass parts at once..... Or play a groove and then solo over it?
     
  2. The boomerang is what your looking for.

    cheater :rolleyes: :p
     
  3. I found the Boomerang to be very noisy. Even after adjusting the input levels and switches it really wasn't as quiet as my Akai headrush. It has 24 seconds of sampling time and a very simple interface. If you're ok with 24 seconds, 12 w/ overdubs, I'd say go for it. Less than $200 and we were able to boot our lame guitar guy out of the band. I sample my fat lines, play high-end skanks or horn lines.....so much fun. I saw one on ebay today as well...
     
  4. LWatford

    LWatford

    Jul 28, 2001
    Helena, AL
    Gibson makes the Echoplex Digital Pro, usually regarded as the best looper made. They have the best features and control of any other looper made. There is more information on Gibson's home page, you'll have to search for it though, they have any information hidden pretty good!

    Lexicon made a unit called the JamMan, which is considered a classic unit, and commands very high used prices. The manual is on the Lexicon site.

    A good site with alot of looping resources is Looper's Delight. I can't think of the address, but searching for it should find it.

    Lee
     
  5. Lots of high end samplers out there to be sure....some even with the "quanitize" function. My drummer hated my Headrush. It's very tricky to get your loops j u s t right. he liked it allot better after he received the xtra cash from only being a three-piece.
    I haven't heard good things about the Roland loop station thing, it sure sounds good on paper though....
    The high end samplers like the Gibson and Lexicon are great but in a live context can become very involved. The problem w/ these things is that if you mess up the sample, you don't get a second chance; EVERYONE will know. The simpler the interface the better. I like the Headrush for it's simple start-stop and overdub setup with only two buttons. Boomerang kinda scared me......!
    :)
     
  6. LWatford

    LWatford

    Jul 28, 2001
    Helena, AL
    There is a way to use all the functions live using MIDI CC#s. I think I remember that both the Echoplex and the JamMan have a loop undo, so you are not stuck with what you recorded. The Echoplex is really complex, and it is the only musican based sampler that allows true stereo sampling (by Synching two units together). More can sometimes be better!

    Lee
     
  7. Josh Ryan

    Josh Ryan - that dog won't hunt, Monsignor. Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 24, 2001
  8. Wow, they have a web site out there for every thing.:eek: :confused: :D
     
  9. Josh Ryan

    Josh Ryan - that dog won't hunt, Monsignor. Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 24, 2001
    Yep, and I've probably seen it.
    (kill me, please.....:D )
     
  10. maxvalentino

    maxvalentino Endorsing Artist Godin Guitars/ Thomastik-Infeld

    This July, Michael Manring, Steve Lawson, Rick Walker and myself took part in the world's first Solo Bass Looping Tour in California. While we all had JamMan's, Steve Rick and myself also used the Line6 DL4 delay modeler/loop sampler, which is very simple and efficient for working with bass loops. It also has a higher sample rate (meaning better sound quality) than either the Akai Headrush, Boomerrang, JamMAn or EDP. The EDP ceratinly has many more features, and does wonderful stuff....but it is costly. ANd JamMan's are long discontinued and bring high $$ when found (someone offered me $800 for mine last week!). By the way, I have found for bass, the JamMan may be the best out there...but that's just my opinion. I know Steve loves the DL4...and so do I
    The Dl4 has much better quality than the Headrush...very clean and quiet. and has some tre-cool vintage delay models in there to boot.
    Another option might be the Repeater from Electrix...which has options that even the EDP hasn't...like up to nine min. of sample time; various levels of undo; time stretch; four channel looping; and the ability to save you loops on flash cards!!!
    at about $650-700 it is not totally cheap, but not outrageous.
    Bass may just be the perfect instrument for loopage, and I certainly hope more and more bassist climb aboard the looping ship....I use my loopers in all kinds of circumstances, not just to annoy or replace the guitar. I have used loops for atmosphere in country and blues bands (weren't they surprised!), and make a sizeable amount of my professional income (and all I do is music) doing solo bass looping shows. There is so much more to the form than just making a loop and then soloing over it...the creation of form, atmosphere, rhythm and ambience is where the magic of looping really lies.
    You might want to check out Steve Lawson's website (www.steve-lawson.co.uk). He really is a master at looping, his work is simply amazing,and on his site he several RA and mp3s where you can "sample"(pun) what looping is about.
    Max
     
  11. Josh Ryan

    Josh Ryan - that dog won't hunt, Monsignor. Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 24, 2001
    maxvalentino, have any of you guys trieds the boss rc-20. I've been hearing random things about it, weird quantize function, noisy etc. Just curious, I need a reliable opinion before I buy one. I think I'm going to get that or the DL4. Do you ever use any of the other functions of the dl4?





     
  12. maxvalentino

    maxvalentino Endorsing Artist Godin Guitars/ Thomastik-Infeld

    Bliss; I have checked out the new Boss unit, and it has some appealing features (like a 5 min sample time and non-volatile memory) but like most boss things, there is something missing.
    Several of the ins and outs are either mini plugs or RCA plugs, which indicates it's design was based around the dj'remix club, and so a little unfriendly to bassists.
    I don't really care for the loop quantize function..but I have been looping for a few years, and my tap in/out timing is good....it might be nice for some folks, but no thanks.
    There was a problem with the storage interface...a lot of bending or kneeling to switch functions and such.
    It seems to be a better tabletop looper than a bassist's performance tool..but thats just my opinion.
    As with all Boss stuff it does not have a true bypass (the Line6 DL4 does)..and we know what that means (funny how most guitarist don't care about that feature).
    The memory and long loop time do make it interesting..and I might get one just for that....and to add yet another non-midi looper into my mix, but feature for feature, dollar for dollar the DL4 still wins.
    Caveat: Line6 just came out with a rackmount "pro" version of the DL4. 60 seconds of sample time and midi control on the delay programs..but no midi on the looper! Quite an oversight...making it not really worth the $500 pricetag.
    But it is nice to see companies investing in looping technology....a trend perhaps?
    Most of who do serious looping, by the way, don't think of the looper as an effect; it is more like an instrument in its own right, albeit one which requires an outside sound source.
    Max
     
  13. Josh Ryan

    Josh Ryan - that dog won't hunt, Monsignor. Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 24, 2001
    true, the looper would be fufilling the same roll as a bassline your playing at the moment. I think I'll get the DL4 then. the Boss seems to have a lot of problems. Maybe the next version will be better. thanks Max!!!





     
  14. I purchased a DL4 a couple months ago after Max and I had a similar conversation about loop units for bass.... it is absolutely fantastic. No noise, and does not diminish my tone or volume. I only wish it had a bit more loop time, but I aint complaining... For a $200 unit.... you can't beat it.

    I have a good friend who has a Boomarang, and he gets a good amount of hiss, and looses a small degree of warmth when he kicks it into action. He purchased a DL4 after borrowing mine for a couple of days.
     
  15. well i am thinking twice now about putting money toward a boomarang, maybe ill check out the DL4 next time im up at the music shop. Basically, I want a phrase recorder that will EXACTLY replicate my sound(tone, volume). Will the DL4 do that? how hard is it to use? will i have to bend down and tweek all the knobs while i am trying to play? What about playback volume? I like the boomarang's volume dial, does the DL4 have anything like it? Thanks a lot...Nate
     
  16. maxvalentino

    maxvalentino Endorsing Artist Godin Guitars/ Thomastik-Infeld

    The DL4 is a great looper..save for the oversight of not having any MIDI (or other) time sync, but that is an easily overcomne problem.
    Steve Lawson and I both used the DL4s this summer on tour to great success. The sound quality is far superior to the 'rang. It too is simple to use...I recommend getting the optional expression pedal (and while you are at it the power supply too) as that opens up a lot of possibilities (incl pedal controlled vol fades, and morphing 'tween delayed loop times...)
    It is incredibly simple to operate...perhaps the only REAL trick being the coordination of yer playing and footswitch tapping! A real aquitred skill! But after a little work it gets easy....and your sense of time greatly improves!
    As for the sound quality issue: anytime you feed your signal thru some electronics there is a change in the tone. Higher end stuff may make this change less noticable, but it is there nonetheless. All pedals effect your tone...but the DL4 does it to such a minimal level that it is hardly noticeable. The true bypass helps. The sound quality is as good as I have heard for any looping machine (that goes for the EDP and my beloved JamMan).
    Max
     
  17. Josh Ryan

    Josh Ryan - that dog won't hunt, Monsignor. Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 24, 2001
    Cool, do you guys use the delay settings with the loop capabilities a lot? I can't wait to get this thing.
     
  18. i too was thinking of getting into the world of looping but i think at this point i wouldnt end up using it as much as would like. And i think if i buy anymore effects my guitar player will declare war on me. :D
     
  19. spikewolff

    spikewolff

    Oct 1, 2001
    Western PA
    Thanks to all for their information.... think I will try to play with one of the DL4s. I come from a pretty traditional no frills playing style. I always tell my guitar players that effects are like cheating. If you can't play it straight why bother... For instance, not being able to play 16th note grooves at speedy tempos...but using a delay to simulate....Sometimes I have found that I needed to invent techniques to play the things I want to....lately have been doing a lot with right hand finger style, like a classical guitar player or Charlie Hunter. However, looping doesn't seem like cheating. The possiblities for chord voicing seem endless, and the possibility of laying a Rocco Prestia like funk groove and then soloing over it sounds like fun to me. Thanks again and check out my Jaco wanna be pictures for a recent show at home.att.net\~sspeer
     
  20. I said the exact same thing, but have found many uses for it while playing - suprisingly. Now the only problems I have is with drummers ! ! :D

    On a lighter note.... getting the coordination down was an interesting project, especially if you are laying down a fairly intricate bass line; but a little practice took care of most of that. Here is another interesting thing I found out on that same note (no pun intended). I found that my coordination was better on stage than when I would practice at home. Finally figured out that it was because I practice w/o shoes on - not so on stage. So, I wound up purchasing a pair of "practice slippers" with rubber tread on the bottom - no more problems at home ;)