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Red O Ray gut string info?

Discussion in 'Strings [DB]' started by Gearhead43, Sep 26, 2008.


  1. Gearhead43

    Gearhead43

    Nov 25, 2007
    NorCal
    I just got a used Red O Ray wound gut E string in the original package. Are these NOS or are they still around? Anyone have any info on these?

    I am a gut nut and this is a very interesting E string. The package says the string has been treated with a red "substance" that helps moisture-proof and extend the life of the string.

    Just curious about the old guts now.
     
  2. Bobby King

    Bobby King Supporting Member

    May 3, 2005
    Nashville, TN
    Red-O-Rays are no longer made. They were made by Kaplan, who also made Golden Spirals. I think that D'Addario bought Kaplan and they continued to make Spirals for a while, but they have been discontinued. There's been some talk of a revival.

    Red O Rays had a sort of waxy finish. There were plain ones, metal wound, and once I had a NOS nylon-wound A. The Nylon was red too. I never tried that one, I sold it.

    There are other red gut strings, LaBella made red gut. I also had some Fisoma strings that had red-dyed gut. Harpists have long used colored gut strings to help identify them visually. It may be that this is where it originated.

    Labella's Sweetone gut strings also had that sort of waxy finish. Red-O-Rays always seemed decent, but not really that much different from other gut. They look cool!

    There were many brands of gut in days gone by. Beware though when you find NOS. Sometimes you'll find a great string, but sometimes the gut can be very dried out, and on wound gut the core can shrink causing the windings to come loose.

    I think that Gamuts are about as good as any NOS that I ever had, with the possible exception of a "Roth" brand wound E that was the best wound E I ever had. Wasn't huge in diameter and had great tone and pitch.

    TBer "Superman" knows a lot about old guts.
     
  3. Gearhead43

    Gearhead43

    Nov 25, 2007
    NorCal
    Thanks Bobby, I was hoping you'd comment on this.

    I like all plain gut for my usual Rockabilly slap stuff, but wound E&A are more versatile for other styles of course. I have a Goetz set that is very nice, but I can't seem to find where you can buy them anymore either. Alot of guys like the Olive E w/plain ADG for slap, country, etc.

    This string is in great shape. I think I will try it out this weekend. I am more of a "beer budget" gut player , but I would love to try the Gamuts when and if I get some "champagne" money. :D

    I like big fat strings, so I'd bet the NOS guts would be right up my alley. Might be an even more expensive habit to pick up though! :rollno:
     
  4. Bobby King

    Bobby King Supporting Member

    May 3, 2005
    Nashville, TN
    Yeah, I don't know what happened to Goetz (or was it "Götz"?). Lemur and a few others music used to carry those, they were from Germany. Now Lemur has Efrano, and there's also Lenzner and LaBella as far as the "cheaper" guts (still around $200 a set). I used to feel that Goetz was the best of those name-brand guts, and the wound E&A were not a huge as LaBellas (if you like 'em big, get the LaBellas). It always seemed to me that the G and A string would be OK in those sets, but the D and E were worse. Maybe it's that the thicker the string or gut core is, the more important the twisting/manufacturing process becomes. Many of those cheaper E's can be real thuddy strings that don't get a clear note, and the Ds can be real iffy too. You can still get a fine set of old-school guts from Gamut, but it costs you like $400!

    Good luck with your quest!
     
  5. Superman Kent Blanton wrote these quotes to me awhile back when I was asking him about guts:

    "I used to get some decent strings from Hammond Ashley in Seattle,they were Goetz, brand,,they had to order heavys for me but they were about as good as Gamuts,,and a lot less money,,you might want to check into those,.
    Look for the Goetz strings,, let me know what you find,,thanks Kent"

    "if you can find the gotz in a heavy gage they are the same gage as the gamuts I have, and I took those mesurments from the old Labellas( from the 60s) which were on Zinkans bass ....

    As far as the A&E goes I would recomend something besides a wound gut,,they are a lot of trouble,right now I'm going through the change of warm to cold,and humid to dry,,and its hell on these wound guts..

    check on those Gotz,strings,,if I could get the heavys I would buy them over the gamuts,,I know they are quite a bit less,,check out the main board I'll post all the gages I have,,Bye,Kent"


    So I looked into it a bit and found this German fellow in Mass. that shows Goetz D & G guts in his "Accessories" section: http://www.nahrmannbass.com . Herr Nahrmann wrote me back and I relayed the info to Superman Kent:

    "Here's the latest e-mail to me:
    "Dear Bob I am in Germany right now but will be back on sunday. I have the gut strings labeled by Goetz and Lenzner ( they actually make the strings for Goetz) The gauges vary slightly. Do you have specific dimensions that your current strings have? I could then compare mine to that. Feel free to call me."

    Maybe the Lenzner / Goetz guts aren't like the ones from the "good old days." You may want to check with him yourself. Right now I'm still leanin' towards the Gamuts. SeeYa ... Happy New Year ... Bob"


    I further e-mailed Herr Nahrmann about the gauge / sizes and never heard back from him .... I ended up with Gamuts and I'm plenty happy.
     
  6. Gearhead43

    Gearhead43

    Nov 25, 2007
    NorCal
    Hmm...so maybe the Lenzner and Gotz/Goetz are from the same maker then?

    I have an all plain set of Lenzners now and like them alot.

    I might try the LaBellas some time, too.

    With the kind of music I play (ie: loud) , I am not sure the subtelties of the Gamut guts would shine thru so much, but I am still really curious about them. Might maybe buy a G string to see what all the fuss is about.

    I will be on the lookout for some NOS guts though when budget permits, unless the Nashville bass players got them all already! :D
     
  7. Bobby King

    Bobby King Supporting Member

    May 3, 2005
    Nashville, TN
    I think the benefits of Gamut will be more apparent to you from a D or a wound string. The G is usually the least problematic in cheaper sets, IMO.
     
  8. Gearhead43

    Gearhead43

    Nov 25, 2007
    NorCal
    Thanks for the info. Maybe I'll start saving my change for a Gamut D then.

    I think I read here that the roundwound Gamuts are polished smooth, how smooth? Problem is roundwound strings can be hard on the fingerboard if you slap alot.
     
  9. AndreasH

    AndreasH

    Apr 8, 2005
    Sweden
    I mailed Nahrmann aswell, I've now received an e-mail from him.
    There are no gauge specifications on the Goetz package so he couldn't tell me about the diameters.
    But he did tell me they were unvarnished.
     
  10. gor-gy

    gor-gy

    Jul 27, 2006
    france nancy (54)
    Hello from france, Götz string have unique size now,

    the maker website :
    http://www.gotzviolins.de/history/history_fr.htm

    a french dealer:
    http://www.mastri.fr/index.php/cPath/295_8_328_400/category/g//tz.html

    gotz string are very very great string , i had play with unwound set , all string a great the A have great definition slap, bowed or pizz. Dont need to buy gamut , chorda, götz, dlugolecki are best, If you need a Real Lyon gut buy at :
    SOFRACOB french gut maker from...lyon. In europe we have lot of gut maker , I had lenzer and gotz , it's different , not same gauge, not same sound... different maker , sure. Gotz string are made by pfitzner. Matthew rybicki play gotz and chorda.
    you can found gotz string in usa under the name Pfitzner , for example :

    https://www.metzlerviolins.com/pc-216851-2-pfitzner-bass-a-string-gut.aspx

    let's swing
     
  11. AndreasH

    AndreasH

    Apr 8, 2005
    Sweden
    Do you know the gauges/diameters of the Goetz guts?
     
  12. gor-gy

    gor-gy

    Jul 27, 2006
    france nancy (54)
    so, i need to go home for that , cause I don't have the string here, but in my memories, it was similar to lenzner , (you can see it at bob gollihur web store) but with best A & E plain gut. I can't tell for woundgut. I'll make report when i'll be back home
     
  13. JeffKissell

    JeffKissell Supporting Member

    Nov 21, 2004
    Soquel, CA
    Gor-gy, AndreasH,
    I'm curious if you know where the Efrano or Lenzner gut strings are made in Germany. I have not found much info on how or where these are made. They are the only really available imports we have here in the states and are less expensive than the Dlugolecki & Gamut (US makers). I'm about to compare Dlugolecki D & G strings to Efrano E & A strings but I would like to know more about who makes them. The Dlugoleckis are great strings but very expensive, the unwound A string is $238 US.
    Thanks,
    -Jeff
     
  14. Gearhead43

    Gearhead43

    Nov 25, 2007
    NorCal
    Thanks for the info Gor-gy,

    I have been looking for a Gotz dealer and can't seem to find any in the USA anymore.

    I had a wound set a while back and they were very nice sounding guts.
     
  15. gor-gy

    gor-gy

    Jul 27, 2006
    france nancy (54)
    so I just can tell you that lenzner, götz, pirastro, savarez, aquila are very very old gut maker, around 1850. this the web site of lenzner you can ask them for more info :

    http://www.lenzner-saiten.de/
    I can just tell you that all these string are different, but I don't know efrano, labella.

    for buy götz maybe you can ask to matthew rybicki on his website but in France it's the same, it's dificult to buy it on internet but all luthier and music shop can order them easily, so maybe if you can give the contact mail to your luthier he can write them. I remember that pirastro didn't want to make me a plain A , but my luthier can order for me.

    this is two other REAL gut maker :

    http://www.kuerschner-saiten.de/ ( from germany)

    very cool guy with cool price good string,

    http://www.torostrings.it/english/index.html ( from italy)

    the guy who wrote the slam stewart transcription book use them.
     
  16. AndreasH

    AndreasH

    Apr 8, 2005
    Sweden
    Nahrmann Bass Shop has Götz D and G. Here's a link.
     
  17. AndreasH

    AndreasH

    Apr 8, 2005
    Sweden
  18. gor-gy

    gor-gy

    Jul 27, 2006
    france nancy (54)
    brend kuerschner is a fine german gut maker, my luthier work only with kuerschner, götz, pirastro. Have you saw in special offer section on kuerschner website for this end of year he have special price :

    G string plain gut 2,10mm 19,90 euro quantity 7
    D higt twist gut 2,80mm 25,50 euro quantity 7
    set all plain gut medium tension 99 euro quantity 2

    about Lenzner do you know/have the jazz set in USA ?

    the super solo jazz set it's different than classic set sell at bob gollihur for example.

    E & A are silverwound
    D nylon on gut
    G plain gut

    it's different gauge too


    Sorry I don't know the gut from toro brother, but he can make custon gauge and all you want.
     
  19. AndreasH

    AndreasH

    Apr 8, 2005
    Sweden
    I listened to Matthew Rybicki on a youtube clip and if that's Götz on his bass it sounds pretty damn good. I really hope to find a whole set somewhere.

    EDIT:

    I found this website that sells plain Götz strings.
     
  20. gor-gy

    gor-gy

    Jul 27, 2006
    france nancy (54)
    on video from matthewrybickimusic on youtube, matthew play chorda gut string.
     

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