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Replace my EBS 4x10?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by RAM, Nov 26, 2003.


  1. RAM

    RAM

    May 10, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    So...I went to the local shop to kill some time today. I figured I have an EBS 4x10 that I'm somewhat happy with, but when I bought it, I had nothing to compare it to. I wasn't a smart shopper back then.

    What I tried out was 2 different setups. First was an Aguilar 2x12. I had to see what all the rage was...I A/B'd it with the EBS 4x10 in the shop and found the Aguilar was thicker, fuller, but lacked the growl and articulate-ness of the EBS. So, I decided I didn't have such a bad rig, after all. But, still not thoroughly content, I then tried out an Aguilar 2x10 on top of an Aguilar 1x15. This was fuller than the 2x12 and had the growl of the EBS. So, I'd come SOOOO close to pulling the trigger, that if I had my EBS cab with me, I would've made the trade right then and there.

    Of course, that's when I started thinking...DAMNED BRAINS!!! They always get me in trouble!

    So, I started thinking, if I'm really gonna do this, I need to make an INFORMED decision, right? Well, there are other cabs I've tried that I loved, such as Phil Jones and Accugroove. I've just never tried the ones by these guys that might be most likely to suit my needs: Accugroove El Whappo Jr. and Phil Jones 6T and 9B combination. I've also never played any Epifani cabs...ever!

    So, I'm curious...what are your experiences with these setups? What did you like, what did you not like?

    Oh...my style is jazz, blues, rock. I like the definition mids provide, but love the clarity of a sweet treble and full lows...sounds like what everybody's looking for, right?

    Thoughts???
     
  2. junglebike

    junglebike Supporting Member

    Feb 14, 2003
    San Diego, CA
    Well, you should put the Epifani 2x12 on your list for sure! Much meatier than the EBS stuff, but with tons of definition and clarity. Haven't had a chance to A/B vs Aguilar, tho.

    edit... and if you're at least moderately happy with your rig now, do yourself a favor and take your time!!! You'll thank yourself later...
     
  3. Aaron J

    Aaron J

    Jul 16, 2003
    Cincinnati, OH
    I personally found nirvana with my Aguilar 210 and 112. The 112 has a great low mid definition (which really complements the 210 nicely). I'm sure you have read about the amount of bottom these things put out, also. I play a lot of freelance jazz, rock, and funk on both upright and electric and these cabinets really work wonderfully with both. I haven't tried the Epifani, but I have tried just about everything else. I am sold on Aguilar cabs. :smug: Just my 2 cents, though. I agree with jungle...take your time and try as much stuff out as you can. :bassist:
     
  4. Try the 2x12 and 2x10 together. I gigged with the Aguilar 212 and a swr goliath jr. 210 a couple of weeks ago and found it to be a great combination.
     
  5. jobu3

    jobu3 Artist formerly known as Big Joe

    Feb 17, 2002
    Mountain Top, PA
    personally, i've never really cared for EBS cabinets. i directly A/B'ed the EBS 410 to the epi 310 and found that the smoothness of the epi was defined and thick compared to the EBS which sounded much colder to my ears. i'd definitely look into epi's if you can find them around you... they're the bees kness for me! :D :cool:
     
  6. You're probably not gonna believe this...but those cabs are my two current rigs (the Whappo Jr. and the PJB 6/9 combination.) Unfortunately, I can only comment on the Accugroove 'cause I've just ordered the PJB and it hasn't arrived yet. I plan on covering two bases (no pun intended). The Whappo Jr. is fed by an Eden Navigator/QSC PLX 2402 combination...and obviously, that's more my solid state rig - and I must say...as of yet, that is THE baddest cab on the planet. From a soft whisper to a wall crushing roar that cabinet is true in every sense. Handling 800 watts continuous...so far it's the one for me. Just one drawback, it is a little bulky...not necessarily heavy, but just a big cabinet. The PJB will be for the more organic tube kind of thing. Using a Burriss preamp and a Crown Macro Tech 1200. I have a feeling that's gonna be...well...interesting to say the least. Hope the espousal about the Whappo helped some - you wouldn't go wrong with that...just have sufficient headroom for it (at least 1200w or more to get as much out of that baby!)
     
  7. jivetkr

    jivetkr

    May 15, 2002
    NJ

    I have to agree here. I have the same setup, gs210 & gs112, powered by a PLX2402 & DB659. Thats a killer rig. Tons of bottom from the 112. It sounds like a 15! & the 210 is just really sweet sounding.
     
  8. RAM

    RAM

    May 10, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    I've played through the El Whappo, just not the Whappo Jr. and thought...WOW!!! In fact, when I tried it through the El Whappo, the PJB 8T/16B combination, and a Glockenklang 12" cab on top of a Glock 15" cab. Through them all, the amp was a Glock Soul, though I tinkered around with the PJB M-500 rig.

    This experience is what's making me wonder...I'm looking at the little brothers of the PJB and Accugroove cabs, and after playing the Aguilar...the Aguilar was in a completely different setting, and I couldn't A/B it with the Accugroove or PJB.

    When are you getting your PJB? What made you buy it?

    I'm not planning on replacing my Fafner. Is that enough power for the power hungry Accugroove?
     
  9. I bought the PJB (and I'hoping to have it on a gig next week...) essentially on principle and of course some of the reviews (but as I'm sure you know, you have to take those with a grain of salt). I'm kind of more interested in the idea of a full range cabinet capable of performing those reported freq. ranges WITHOUT the use of dedicated 'tweeter'. Most if not all the top manufacturers today are claiming, "out cabinets are the flatest...all you get is the sound of your bass - blah, blah, blah) But they ALL color the sound and we're the ones at the mercy of whatknid of high freq. unit they're using and what freq. they're crossing that signal over at! Like for instance Eden vs. SWR. As I understand they essentially are using the same high freq. driver...but if you open them both up all the way??? Man, you'd have to be tone deaf to not hear the difference in high response! So then it gets to be just a matter of what you like. So hence I thought I'd give Phil a shot...and we'll see.
    As for the Accugroove being power hungry...mine's the 4 ohms (rated @ 800w) variety. Most manufacturers will tell you that optimally you should be using an amp rated for double of what the cab is rated. So essentially a 1600 bridge mono amp should be best. I think you'd be fine with a couple hundred watts over rating...a 1000w would give you sufficient headroom. As I was trying to explain to some lunkheads on another posting...most speaker damage (meaning frying of voice coils) is due to UNDERPOWERED power supplies.
    Hope that helps some...
     
  10. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    Why not keep your ebs-410 and add a good 1x15 or 2x12?

    I would try the EBS 1x15 first and then compare it to some other good ones like Bag End, Bergantino or maybe an Epifani T-112.

    I think you have a good cabinet, you just need to complement it with the right cab.
     
  11. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    This is really cool.

    I've been hawking this combination of speakers for several months, ever since I first heard them just trying out different stuff at a music store.

    I heard them driven by a DB750 (sweet!).

    I think two GS112's plus two GS210's would really kill for a big rig and then just take what you need based on the size of the venue.
     
  12. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    the EBS 4x10 at the Sadowsky shop has always been really harsh and razor'y in the highs for me. even when being used with the sweet DB680/DB728 combo. lots of killer nasty punch, tho.

    IMHO, a similar, yet smoother 4x10 to try would be Aguilar's own 4x10. sweeter smoother high end, along side an aggressively punchie lower mid. another great cab, but a bit more on the aggressive vein would be an Eden XLT 4x10.

    but when you start talking Accugroove, Epifani, or even the new Phil Jones, things get really expensive, really fast. IMHO, the aggie or eden would be a great step up, without breaking your bank. also, you see these cabs a bit more often on ebay than the others.

    btw, the EBS frequency response is a bit shocking. 70Hz-18kHz? ***, is that right? the Aguilar and Eden go down to 40Hz & 50Hz, respectively.
     
  13. RAM

    RAM

    May 10, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    It may just be right...

    The way I eq it, it's not as harsh sounding as one would think, either with my Spector NS-4 (equipped with 2 EMG soapbars) or my Jerzy Drozd (a warmer, "milder" tone). And, it reproduces the lows of the low "B" string, despite the rating of 70 Hz. The thing is, it's not as "full" in the lows as the Aggie I tried. It's not quite as "clear" as the PJB I tried. It's not as "hi-fi" as the Glock I played through.

    It may be one of those things I never find the perfect amp for. I think EBS makes really nice stuff...I just think I can move one step closer to the sound that's in my head.
     
  14. RAM

    RAM

    May 10, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Well, since I'm not planning on replacing the Fafner (yet, anyway), I'm a little nervous. It's rated at 440 watts into 4 ohms and 620 watts into 2 ohms. I'm not likely to find a 2 ohm cabinet...I also don't think I'm "in the mood" for 2 4 ohm cabs.
     
  15. The Fafner, like most European amps, is probably under-rated as far as power output goes. My guess at its true output is in the 700-800 watt range at four ohms.
     
  16. RAM

    RAM

    May 10, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    I thought about that...one problem is space. Another is the fact that I cannot find a 2x12 or 1x15 EBS cab in the Chicago area. The only EBS dealer in town has a 4x10 and a 2x10. In fact, it's the same dealer that showed me the Aggie cabs.

    The flip side is that I've heard dropping the Fafner down to 2 ohms would improve the sound dramatically. I'd also have a rig that's over 6 feet tall...exactly what I'm hoping to avoid.
     
  17. Whappo Grande

    Whappo Grande

    Feb 9, 2002
    Santa Clara, CA.
    Manager: AccuGroove Speakers
    The Fafner might work just fine.

    When I'm lazy & don't feel like taking "the rack" (4,000 watts), I use a Merlin 550 head. Although it's around 550 watts at 4 Ohms, I can't get it past level 3 (about 9 o'clock) on the volume knob. Keep in mind that is playing through an 800 watt El Whappo or a 800 watt Whappo Jr. cabinet.

    Some amps are just louder, cleaner & built better. In other words...5 amps with the SAME specs can be totally different. (just like cabs)
    Therefore, the way some amps are designed, you might need, as stated, a 1,000 to 1,600 watts.

    It also depends on how loud you get, the venue, the type of music, how many people are in the band, etc.

    Mark

    AccuGroove
     
  18. RAM

    RAM

    May 10, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    I may be going to Luthiers Access Group this weekend. Unfortunately, Dan only has (or had, last time I checked) an El Whappo. If anything, I don't need anything bigger than the Jr. I'll bring my Fafner along for the ride.
     
  19. Whappo Grande

    Whappo Grande

    Feb 9, 2002
    Santa Clara, CA.
    Manager: AccuGroove Speakers
    I think the Fafner should work big time!:bassist:

    AccuGroove
     
  20. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    woah,

    PeteF rides again? thought you swore off the forum?

    no matter, great to have you back, tough guy... :bassist: