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Replacement speaker for an underrated 210 cab

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Dynna, Jun 11, 2014.


  1. Dynna

    Dynna

    Oct 23, 2004
    Hey everyone,

    So my old 2x10 cab is underrated for my recent amp head upgrade. The new AMP
    is 400w and I would like to swap out the speaker cones to prevent the cab from making those delightful crunch noises when I accidentally push it too hard. I will field any and all suggestions that don't involve buying an equally delightful brand new $800-1000 Bergantino 210 cab. I just want to replace the components. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  2. I doubt you can improve on the system that Jim has designed. If you need more volume, get more cab.
     
  3. /\
    This

    Unless you are looking to use some "super 10's", and design a new cab around them, there is only so much a 2X10 is going to do.
     
  4. nashman

    nashman

    Feb 11, 2011
    It's generally not a good idea to replace speakers in a cab with anything other than the original speakers - or at least speakers with very similar specs - otherwise results will be unpredictable. Cabinets are designed/tuned for the specs of the speakers being used - cabinet volume, port size etc.. In your case, if your cab w/the original speakers is not up to the task relative to your new amp - I would suggest replacing your speakers like-for-like and not push it too hard (perhaps a compressor would help) - or do what you don't want to hear and get a new cab that is up to the task (e.g. Eden D210XST).
     
    MrLenny1 and Munjibunga like this.
  5. Just replacing the two 10's with new ones having a higher power handling will not achieve your goal. A misaligned driver/cab combination could easily result in blown drivers, possibly at even lower power levels than the original drivers. If you will provide the internal volume of your cab and the dimensions of any bass ports, we can make some solid recommendations. Keep in mind that an entirely different cab might more effectively address your needs What amp and cab are we talking about here?.
     
    Munjibunga likes this.
  6. Dynna

    Dynna

    Oct 23, 2004
    The cab itself isn't making noises, the speaker cones are. And most of the time, in my regular quiet playing situations, it's fine. I happened to play a rock gig on the weekend and after having a few guest players who play considerably physically harder than I, I'm quite sure my cones are feeling even more less-than-stellar than they were before the evening started. I completely understand the fineries of cabinet design as well. I am just wanting to change the 200w rated components for 400w rated ones, and aside from sourcing out specific bass companies components (which I suppose is a good start anyways), I haven't much else of a clue where to begin looking.

    It's a simple issue of the cones not being able to take the load when things get extra aggressive, couple with some probable weakening of said components.
     
    PawleeP likes this.
  7. Dynna

    Dynna

    Oct 23, 2004
    I will look into the info you're looking for AstroSonic and get back to you asap as my cab is not at home. Thanks.

    And I will get a new cab if that's the most reasonable option. I was just hoping for a cheaper option.
     
  8. The issue is, even if you swap out the speakers, that doesnt give you additional volume or power handling.
     
    Munjibunga and Bass_Pounder like this.
  9. Dynna

    Dynna

    Oct 23, 2004
    And, I'd like to know why that is... I mean I understand that a weak cab just won't take the physical forces of 1200w, but making a jump from 200w to 400w can't be that much of a change. I'm more than willing to be educated, but upgrading the speakers not making a difference doesn't make sense to me.

    If it indeed doesn't make a difference and I need to get a new cab, that's not a problem.
     
  10. SanDiegoHarry

    SanDiegoHarry Banned Supporting Member

    Aug 11, 2008
    San Diego, CA
    What kind of cab are you talking about here (or did I miss that...)?
     
  11. Dynna

    Dynna

    Oct 23, 2004
    It's actually a 19 year old Peavey 2x10 that's rated for 200w that has had one of the speaker cones replaced already. That was done about 13-14 years ago.

    I've already started looking into the companion Traynor 400w 210 cab for my head in case the component "upgrade" option doesn't work out, which it is looking less and less like...
     
  12. A simple way to put it is that there is no such thing as a 10" cone that can legitimately take 400 watts of Bass guitar signal.

    If you truly need 800w of power handling, you need a MUCH larger cabinet, with either larger drivers, more drivers or both.

    It now appears you have 2(100w) speakers, and upgrading to 2(200w) speakers is a MORE reasonable request.

    People that can successfully suggest alternatives to you would need specifics on the box size and any information on what ports are in the cab and their sizes.
     
    PawleeP likes this.
  13. Dynna

    Dynna

    Oct 23, 2004
    Sorry folks, typo up top said the CAB was 400w, which is incorrect.

    The AMP is 400w and the CAB is currently rated for 200w. Dimensions forthcoming.
     
  14. Jaco who?

    Jaco who?

    May 20, 2008
    If this is an 8Ω 210tvx, just snag another one on craigslist, music go round, etc. Those aren't particularly rare. Each cab will handle half the load, problem solved.
     
  15. Because you dont just change one spec, and the tone and power handling are determined by more than one spec.

    Some light reading

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small
     
  16. Dynna

    Dynna

    Oct 23, 2004
    " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small "

    Sweet. And it makes sense. As it happens, when the person replaced my speaker cone x number of years ago, it was a different brand. It has a square magnet on the back, as opposed to the standard round that came with the Peavey cone. There is no visible labeling on the replacement cone(from the port).

    The cab itself is 16 tall, 17 deep, and 24 wide. It has a 4 inch port centered 2 inches from the top at the back. The tweeter is rated for 150w at 8ohms, with the original Peavey cone rated at 175w and 8ohms. It's a 4ohm cab rated at 175w RMS continuous and "350W program" and a 3.5kHz crossover. There does appear to be a center support/wall inside with some baffling on it, but I didn't reach inside to see if it extends all of the way down. I'm not convinced it does. I hope that suffices for additional information.
     
  17. Dynna, your terminology is a little confusing. If the cone is replaced it's a "re-cone". Every thing is replaced except the basket and magnet structure. Each speaker unit is called a driver. If a driver is replaced, as you seem to indicate, it should be identical to the existing driver especially if the cabinet has more that one.

    In order for the cabinet to perform at its best the size and porting must match the drivers TS parameters. Anything else just results in a crapshoot. It might sound great but more likely it won't. Even the best drivers on the market will not work properly if the cabinet is unsuitable.

    As for using a single 2x10, its not going to get you too far. I use the 2x10 format, Acme B2, but I'd never dream of playing a gig with just one. I've found that a pair make a versatile rig especially in a vertical stack.

    One last comment on power handling: the ratings are normally thermal or when the voice coil starts to melt. Typically a driver will run out of excursion and into damage at around half of its thermal rating. IOW you drove your cabinet with four times what it could make use of.
     
  18. waveman

    waveman

    Sep 25, 2008
    So I have an older rear ported Peavey cab that I use for our practice space. I had a cone distortion issue with the original cones as well, they were blown. If this is the same cab I have, then try the eminence beta 10a's I got on sale from Musicians Friend. My cab was originally rated at 8ohms and somewhere between 175W and 200W. I can't remember. Anyway, those speakers worked out really well, and that cab will handle more power. A mouse had crawled up and died in the insulation in the cab and it stunk horribly. So I tore all of that out, and it sounds great with a GK MB500 or Markbass LMIII. It actually sounded a little better than my Version 1 rear ported Avatar 2x10 rated at 8ohms.

    Also, this cab will handle @ 300W or so from my experience
     
  19. Dynna

    Dynna

    Oct 23, 2004
    Well, it had a whole driver replaced about 14 years ago. I've never had any issue using my 2x10 for a gig. I do own a 1x15 but find it flatulent and toneless so I use it for nothing else but to bring the 2x10 up to shoulder height so I can hear it, which allows me to keep the volume down. I have only run into issues in the last couple of years where at a certain regular annual gig other players have stepped in and they play considerably physically harder than I, and not being used to my rig, don't know to actually treat it with a little tenderness. Most of the 3 or 4 guys are great players that know the difference, but all it takes is one kid who's only played for about 10 minutes to bash the snot out of it, and that, in combination with the cabinet not being rated for the full load of what my amp delivers has led me to this point. Otherwise, I've never needed more power or volume in the 23 years I've been playing.

    I understand the technical concerns with replacing the cones and will just have to break down for a new cab. Thanks for the insight everyone.
     
  20. For an estimated internal volume of 2.6 cf tuned to 47 Hz (4" did by 3" length), a pair of Beyma SM110N's (http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma sm110n-1.htm) will easily handle the thermal load of your amplifier (each driver is rated 400w 'program') and exceed Xmax below 40 Hz and be limited to 300w between 65 and 80 Hz, but be well below Xdamage (28mm p-p) above 40 Hz. It rolls off above 3.5 KHz so it should blend with the tweeter pretty well. The Eminence Alpha 10A, Beta 10A, S2010 and Delta 2510 II would all 'work', but all have one or more problems (bass response peaked or rolled off early, power handling insufficient). A pair of Eminence BP102-8 would work, but drop off well below where the tweeter comes in, so there would be a lack of energy between the two - results in a loss of presence and articulation.
     
    PawleeP, maestrovert and vmabus like this.

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