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replacement speaker ideas for hartke 410xl cab?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by andysvec, Jun 5, 2005.

  1. andysvec

    andysvec Supporting Member

    well, I picked up a 410xl cab used a few weeks ago and I think I may have blown two of the speakers. My fault, I was running too much power through it and pushed it too hard for some high power gigs this week. Now two of them have that 'torn cone rattling' sound, I took everything apart to check for loose connections or something but everything looks good, just that sound on two of them.

    Anyway, I may just replace all 4 speakers, I already know someone that will buy the two good ones from me so at least I can recoup something for my screw up.

    Can anyone recommend a speaker that will work in this cab? I know that the cab is probably designed for the ones that are in it as far as porting and size goes, but I have had some success in the past, such as putting a pair of emminence deltas in a trace 210 of mine that sounds great now.

    Just looking for some ideas of four 10s that might sound good in this cabinent, with a higher power rating if possible. This was the older 410xl with the 8ohm 100 watt Hartke speakers with the power rating on the back of the cab of 240 watts at 8ohm.

    I'm thinking maybe 4 of the emminence gammas or deltas?
  2. ardorx


    Sep 23, 2004
    Sugar Land, TX
    i have the same cab and the same problem. someone post!!!
  3. I would go for Eminence Gamma 10's they seem to give a good responce in the sized cabinet you are using...

    *Edit*: You'll lose some lowend doing this, and will more than likely need to change the porting to suit the cab/drivers.

    Eminence Legend BP102 also give a good responce curve when used in a cabinet that size- however the Legends aren't very sensitive 91dB SPL each...

    I'm in simular situation- one of my speakers is totally nuff- and looking to replace it :rollno: . I am actually thinknig of getting rid of the cab all together, and building my own 210 to go under a homemade 1x12"- Might ebay the usable speaker, or make it into a tiny practice combo.
  4. andysvec

    andysvec Supporting Member

    ha, between the three of us we may have enough speakers for one 'working' 410xl!

    As far as the Gammas, I don't think I could go with loosing more lowend than this thing already had (or didn't). I liked the way it cut through a band setting, but it was definitely lacking on the lowend already. Plus I'm not confident in changing the porting myself. This is a shame as I really liked how the cabinet sounded on all the gigs I took it to since I got it.

    I emailed Dave at avatar to see what he recommends. I'll post as soon as I hear back from him. Those deltalites look interesting, I wonder if he sells those seperately?
  5. I could sell you my one working speaker- That would leave you with only one to find. :)

    Presuming they are 16ohm in your cabinet?

    Also I just noticed this- www.ddspeaker.com

    Maybe they can help both of us out :)
  6. andysvec

    andysvec Supporting Member

    mine say 8ohm 100 watt on the speakers.

    I wrote that company too, thanks for the info. We'll see what they say also.
  7. ESP-LTD


    Sep 9, 2001
    Dave at Avatar can sell you any over-the-counter Eminence speaker for a good price, including Delta 10's.

    The Gamma 10 wouldn't buy you much LOWS. The Delta is a bit better. (note the edit- had 'highs' instead of 'lows').

    I'd probably go with the Kappa's, if you want power handling and the ability to cut thru; just a whole lot more speaker.
  8. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Don't consider either Gammas or Deltas, neither has adequate xmax nor fs for electric bass. Kappa Pros have the xmax and fs but Qts is far too low for any response below 100 Hz. Nor would I consider anything as inexpensive as what went into the Hartke in the first place. All things considered the Beta 10 is likely the best bet, make sure you change all four. For a 4 ohm box use the 16 ohm 'B' version. Deltalite would be fine also, if you can afford them.
  9. andysvec

    andysvec Supporting Member

    thanks for the info Bill.
    question for you, the hartke cab is 8ohm and the original speakers in the hartke are each 8ohm, and wired like this:
    If you are saying to use the 16ohm Betas, how could I wire the 4 of them together so it would be 8ohms?
    thanks - Andy
    Jeff O'Connor likes this.
  10. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Your present wiring is series/parallel for an 8 ohm load. If that's what you want to stay with order 8 ohm drivers (Beta 10 A). You'd use 16 ohm drivers only if you wanted to go to a 4 ohm load (which I wouldn't recommend but to each their own) wiring all four in parallel.
  11. andysvec

    andysvec Supporting Member

    Bill, one last question.
    what will my wattage be on the cab once I replace the speakers with the four 250w 8ohm beta 10s?
    With the old setup there were 4 100watt 8ohm hartkes and the power rating on the back was 240watts at 8ohms.
  12. andruca


    Mar 31, 2004
    Madrid (Spain)
    It may be able to "thermically" stand 1000W, but consider the "farting point" may be way under that.

  13. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Wattage would be the sum total of the four drivers, although wattage in and of itself is almost meaningless.
  14. dood


    Dec 9, 2004
    This is a really good thread for users of Hartke stuff. especially when you are faced with a handful of cone bits, dug out of the far wall in a venue (jokes)

    As a generalisation, Could anyone vouch for the abilities of the deltalite speakers in the Hartke 4.5XL cab instead of the 410xl?

    Would anybody be willing to work out the Math side of things? I admit when vmax xmax maxpax are mentioned i get lost completely.. well except for maxpax.. they are 'ghastly tasting drinks' machines ;o)
  15. [enter smartass comment here]

    Above posters are correct, RMS long term power would be 1000w, but depending on the cabinet tuning with the new speakers, which could be totally different than the original drivers, is unknowable without plugging the new drivers small thiele parameters into an appropriate program.

    At some point below the port resonance ( or driver resonance? help me out guys, not an expert) the cab stops resisting excursion and the back wave phase helps cause overexcursion of the drivers.

    Incidentally, if that's what blew your existing speakers, the extra wattage rating won't help.

    I've seen web sites publish common speaker thiele parameters, if you can find one, and a thiele program on the web, you should be able to figure out how the new speakers will do, and which speakers would work best.

  16. Very funny. Guess what? If your standing in front of the cab, the aluminum speaker shrapnel won't be in the far wall, it'll be ...... well, lets say you'll have fun explaining it to the nice Homeland Security people next time you try to board a plane... Bet they don't buy you dinner and flowers when they're done having their way with you either.... :eek:

  17. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    It's certainly easy enough to model out specific drivers if someone takes the time and energy required to determine the net interior volume of the cab and the size of the ports/ducts.

    From the catalog description the 410xl looks to be about 3 cu ft net. With that the best f3 you can hope for with Deltalite 2510s is perhaps 85 Hz. Beta 10s will get 10Hz lower on the f3 and will also get a 2 to 3dB response bump around 100 hz. The 2510s model out very nicely with 2 cu ft per driver, but the Hartke box doesn't have it available. It's actually too small to give justice to even two 2510s. Delta 10s model out about the same as Betas as far as f3 is concerned but with half the xmax they'll have a very low threshold of farting.

    BTW, Hartke specs claim a 30 Hz lower response figure with 98dB average sensitivity. That's very optomistic. Both the Deltalite and Beta model down some 20dB at 30Hz, the Delta down some 25dB.
  18. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The tuning of the box is dependant on the size of the box and the volume of the ports. Different drivers won't change it.
  19. Steve


    Aug 10, 2001
    I realize it's a pretty unpopular opinion but....I've always liked the Hartke pro line cabs. You've been able to get recone parts for a few years now. Why don't you think about just getting them fixed.

    No telling what happened to that box before you got it. Those speakers could have been on their last legs before you ever got near it.

    Certainly it's the cheapest fix and the best way to maintain resale value which will be ZERO if you whore up the speakers.
  20. dood


    Dec 9, 2004
    Thanks for the info Bill. Clear and Concise! it made sense.

    @ Steveksuk heh heh, yeah they come at you with rubber gloves on shouting "Bennnnnnnnnnnnddd over!! " LOL

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