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Replacing stock Hartke AK410 stock speakers w/ Eminence BP102 10" Bass Speakers

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Spoono Ghiefardi, Apr 30, 2019.


  1. Spoono Ghiefardi

    Spoono Ghiefardi

    Nov 20, 2015
    Wondering if these will work in the cab? Plan on replacing all of them so I can put more power into the cab. Really good cab and sound with the stocks, but my band plays loud and I don't want to stress the speakers that much or use two cabs. Amp is a Peavey Headliner 1000 run at 8ohms. Thanks much.
     
  2. Rick James

    Rick James Inactive

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    If you have to wonder you shouldn't be thinking about driver swapping, there's a lot more to it than inches and watts.
     
  3. AGCurry

    AGCurry Supporting Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    St. Louis
    I believe the AK410 is a sealed cabinet, so matching resonance and such to tuned ports is not an issue. I don't think you have much to lose... other than money.
     
  4. ThisBass

    ThisBass

    Aug 29, 2012
    Germany
    With the BP102 you'll likely get
    muted mids
    noticeable reduced efficience (loudness) thus your amplifier will be stressed noticeable harder for similar loudness
    improved bass response.

    Not sure if all of these trade offs will meet your needs
     
    pie_man_25 and AstroSonic like this.
  5. Gigglingbuns

    Gigglingbuns

    Aug 26, 2017
    The enclosure was built for the stock speakers, but a direct swap would theoretically work. You just want a louder cab?
     
  6. AGCurry

    AGCurry Supporting Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    St. Louis
    He wants a cabinet capable of handling more power. But OP should keep in mind that it takes 10x more power to produce a theoretical doubling of loudness, given the same speakers. If the replacement speakers are less efficient than the original ones (which we don't know), the result could be disappointing. The BP102's published sensitivity is 92 db - not great but not bad.
     
    AstroSonic likes this.
  7. AstroSonic

    AstroSonic Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2009
    rural New Mexico
    The sensitivity of the BP-102 is lower than most bass guitar speakers by 3-5 db. Hence, the gain in power handling is likely to translate to less (not more) volume. However, there would probably be some gain in excursion limited power handling due to the healthy Xmax of the BP-102. The BP-102's also take a nose-dive in the highs above about 1800 Hz, leaving quite a gap between them and the horn.

    With around 3.6 cf of internal volume, these are a little small for optimal use of many 10 inch drivers, unless you are willing to live with minimal low bass and some loss of midbass. Yes, you can always boost the lows, but that will eat up a lot of amplifier power and speaker power handling.

    IMO, you would be better off simply selling or trading the Hartke 410 for something that for sure is capable of what you are looking for. Buying used can get a lot of performance for the money.
     
  8. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    No, but the driver must have properties suitable for a sealed cabinet. This is a concern.
     
    herndonbassist likes this.
  9. Not wrong on any account as far as i can tell, I'd just like to add that the bp102 can work well in sealed cabs. I think they did have a small sealed 410 of about that in their published "recommended cabs" documents they use for each driver.

    That said though, honestly if you like the sound of your amp and what it does now, why change it? Sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good.
     
  10. Bruiser Stone

    Bruiser Stone Supporting Member

    Dec 7, 2017
    Tennessee
    I put a set of BP102’s in my first stand-alone cab, a bottom ported Sunn (Fender) 410h, replacing the buzzing 10’s that came in it. They were very, very dark sounding and not too loud.
     
  11. BeefPie84

    BeefPie84

    Mar 29, 2019
    I'm not sure this is really rocket science but I replaced a speaker in an old Hartke cab I had with this one when it was on sale for 30 bucks and it still sounds great with the rest of the cab. I hear no buzz or off tunings or anything else that might be considered weird.

    Quake 10

    As they would say in the movie Stripes, a $100 shine on a $5 pair of shoes. Once one of the speakers goes out in a 4 by 10 cab I'm not sure that it's worthwhile to do anything else.
     
  12. The manufacture should have some recommendations, like ported versus suspension, multi-driver configurations, cab volume, etc. Given that most 410 bass cabs are similar in size, I'd have to think popular 10" bass drivers are also designed for the same size cabs, and therefore decent replacements, just maybe not optimal. BP102's look like a generic replacement driver, with a higher power rating.
     
  13. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Until you dive a little deeper into the specs. Higher power doesn't mean a thing if you lose more in sensitivity than you gain in poser handling. For example, 2 drivers rated at the same power handling, 92dB compared with 98dB means that you would de-rate the power handling of the 92dB driver by a factor of 4 to generate the same maximum SPL. Suddenly the higher power advantage turns into a huge disadvantage.
     
    Gearhead17 and AstroSonic like this.
  14. BogeyBass

    BogeyBass Inactive Suspended

    Sep 14, 2010
    That's just really the issue.
    Speakers will be fine in the available airspace.
    Bandwidth is pretty decent too actually.
    Sensitivity as mentioned is just really low.

    Who knows could be no different than the hartke drivers. But can't confirm

    Even the Eminence sealed legends for the popular 810 would work. Same story. Sensitivity is really low. For 410. Takes 8 of them to really get anywhere.

    Trying to think of the one good sealed driver from Eminence that had good sensitivity for sealed application. Kinda oddity. TC electronics had good luck with them.

    Likewise if bandwidth product of the good old Eden CA series would work. Have to model it or check specs. Everyone has heard those drivers. But You'd think someone would shoved em in a sealed box by now.
     
  15. BogeyBass

    BogeyBass Inactive Suspended

    Sep 14, 2010
    Even sensitivity of the beta 10 would have way more advantage. 97 dB is it's average rating. Has peak response, realistically it holds up around 95dB.

    Keep in mind it would take just about 3 or 4 102s to even hit 95 dB.

    The other Beta10cx is a coaxial speaker you can screw in a tweeter on the back of the magnet.
    It's a trade-off. It has a flatter response similar to the 102 but has sensitivity of 94dB. Again it's just a even nice sounding driver.

    Alot the CA series or high sensitivity 10" drivers have a very prononouced peak. Even the lower cost Beta10 has some decent sensitivity and the same peak.

    So the beta CX can be used for flatter response. And you just plug the tweeter threading in the back of the magnet and use it like a normal driver.

    TC electronics had 2x10 with matching coaxial drivers. One had a tweeter the other was just plugged. Of course it's " special design. But was a Eminence driver. Same frame, magnet blah blah as the beta Cx

    Anyhoo I always confuse " BP102" cheaper stamped steel to the B102 which is the cast frame monster. Only 92 dB but a hard hitting great sounding excellent response driver. Pretty tough.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
  16. JimChjones

    JimChjones

    Aug 6, 2017
    SE England
    But ultimately chaps, if the man needs more volume, isn't the best way to get it another cabinet the same? Double the power handling, double the driver area, it's surely the only thing guaranteed to make an audible difference?
     
  17. Unless you want to overdrive the power section of an amp at lower volume levels. I purposely put lower efficiency speakers in a Twin for that reason. Probably not the intent of the OP though.
     
  18. Rick James

    Rick James Inactive

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    Yes, but he said he doesn't want to use two cabs. It's possible to do a driver swap and end up with a cab that has more power handling, higher maximum output and similar tone. All that's required is the complete T/S specs and measured response of the original Hartke drivers, speaker modeling software, and the expertise to make use of the data and software. We know the OP doesn't have speaker modeling software or speaker design expertise. Even if he found someone willing to do the work for him that still means finding the T/S specs and measured response of the Hartke drivers, which is probably impossible. That's why when the topic of driver swapping comes up the answer is almost always that it's a bad idea, because anyone who has the chops and data to do it wouldn't be asking what drivers will work.
     
    agedhorse, pie_man_25 and AstroSonic like this.
  19. But when it comes to Physics you can’t always get what you want. The best path for the OP to follow is to invest the money he would waste in his efforts to upgrade his existing 4x10 and put it towards a more efficient speaker system.
     
    AstroSonic and Bruiser Stone like this.
  20. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Correct, the intent appears to be more volume for his loud band.
     

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