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Rig with Crest Ca9 makes no sound! help

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by groovejam, Jun 14, 2007.


  1. groovejam

    groovejam

    Apr 26, 2005
    JUst got my my alembic f-1x crest ca9 and schroeder 210212l in the mail

    I pluged everything in and everything turned on so I assume it has enough power. I conneceted the full range output of the alembic to the input A on the crest, I put the crest on bridge and conneced my banana plugs to the binding middle binding posts. Then I connected the other end (speakon) to the schroeder.

    I pluged my bass in and turned all the volumes up and there was no sound, not even a little hummm. I noticed the signal indicator on the crest was not turning on so I connected another bass, still no sound.

    Help!
     
  2. bongomania

    bongomania Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    The problem is you have three unknown variable components, each of which have points to troubleshoot. What you really need is not another bass, but another preamp, power amp, and cab, so you can swap those in to determine which piece (or which connnection/cable) is causing the problem.
     
  3. Bryan316

    Bryan316 Inactive

    Dec 20, 2006
    Detroit
    Wait... start at the beginning.

    First... confirm that your bass is putting out a signal. Use your computer's mic input if you have no other amps to use.

    Then, confirm that the Alembic preamp is getting a signal from the bass, and is outputting a signal. Same deal, computer mic in if you need.

    Then, send a signal from your computer (line out or speaker out at LOW LEVEL) or a CD player, into your Crest amp, and see if it triggers the input LED's. If it gets blinking green and yellow, you're sending a hot enough signal for it.

    Now, using the computer or CD player giving signal, plug in the speaker cab and see if it plays the music. If so, amp is good.


    You gotta troubleshoot one step at a time.
     
  4. groovejam

    groovejam

    Apr 26, 2005
    Well, I dont have another one of all components, but I am pretty sure it is not the pre becuase it was working just a few days ago through the power section of my wt400 ( I just sold that).

    Thre reason I thought it could be the bass is that the signal indicator was not lighting up. I was just messing with changing cables. But I could try a few more things.
     
  5. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!

    Jul 3, 2001
    Santa Ana, Calif.
    Former Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    Set it to stereo instead and see if you can get each individual amp channel to work.

    If you still can't get any output, see if you can get output from the amp with some other kind of audio source, like a mixer (with signal going into it), CD player or iPod, etc. Make sure you turn the gain knobs up to pass the signal through.

    If you get sound, the problem probably lies in the preamp, intrument cabling, or pre-to-amp cable, or in how you have them set up.

    But if you still get no sound, then the problem lies in the amp, speaker cabling, or loudspeaker, or in how you have them set up.
     
  6. groovejam

    groovejam

    Apr 26, 2005
    I'll try running my keyboard through it, I tried the amp in stereo. The only cable that could be bad it the amp to cab banana to speakon. It is brand new, just took it out of the package, so I guess it has not been tested. I hope I dont have to go buy another cable just to eliminate that factor.

    Does the signal indicator usually light up really bright on the crest? or does it just flash a little bit.
     
  7. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!

    Jul 3, 2001
    Santa Ana, Calif.
    Former Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    The signal LED brightness depends to some extent on how much signal it's putting out. A very small output signal will light it a little, but as I recall, it doesn't take a lot of output to get it to full brightness--maybe about 1% or so of full output power.
     
  8. groovejam

    groovejam

    Apr 26, 2005
    Just tried the keyboard. Pretty much the same deal. No sound, and I really have to crank the volume to get the signal indicator to light up. I just flashed very dim. It helped a little to run it through the alembic, so I am starting to think that this is a crest issue.

    Any other thoughts? Should I go get another speakon cable? I'm going to go open the back of the schroeder to make sure none of the connections got messed up durring shipping.
     
  9. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Any chance that's a bridging cable, as in Speakon wired 1+ and 2+? That's not what you'd want in this circumstance. Very easily changed with a screwdriver if so.
     
  10. smperry

    smperry Administrator Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Nov 3, 2003
    Bay Area, CA
    Is there any printing on the cable? You might want to open it up (screw off the speakon end) to make sure that it's wired correctly (+/-) for your needs.
    [Edit: Blast...Foiled by Passinwind]

    Marshall
     
  11. groovejam

    groovejam

    Apr 26, 2005
    I see no idication that it is anything out of the ordinary. Its a pyle pro ppbs05 says nothing about being a bridging cable. Just says its a professional speaker cable and on their website it says its a professional dj cable.

    The only reason I thought it might be a cable is that there is no sound at all comming from the cabinet.

    ????!
     
  12. groovejam

    groovejam

    Apr 26, 2005
    I opened the back of the Schroeder, no broken connections that I could see. I think I have narrowed this down to the cable and the crest. The cable is brand new, and I have never tested the crest until now.

    I think its the crest, unless anyone has any ideas or lives in the Twin Cites area and could help me with this, I might look for a repair service...

    :(
     
  13. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!

    Jul 3, 2001
    Santa Ana, Calif.
    Former Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    Open up the Speakon connector on the cable and see if it's wired right. That's a quicker, easier first step than schlepping the amp to a service center.
     
  14. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    You could even just do a quicky battery test on the unplugged banana end of the cable, with the Speakon end plugged into the Schro cab.
     
  15. Bryan316

    Bryan316 Inactive

    Dec 20, 2006
    Detroit
    Definitely open up the Speakon connection and see what it looks like inside.


    Something you gotta understand about Speakons... they're designed for multiple connections. There's regular two-conductor NL2 Speakon plugs, which only act as one speaker line. There's NL-4 Speakon plugs, which allow four conductors, or two speaker lines in one cable.

    Unless you're using some really specialized professional sound reinforcement, your cabinets will all be wired as NL2-compatible Speakon jacks. Parallel in and out, just like 1/4" jacks. They get a +1 and -1 connection -- juice going to, and from, the speakers and the amp. Some cabs that are designed to be bi-amped cabinets can use an NL4 connection to give two signals +1 and -1 for the low frequencies to the big driver, and +2 and -2 for the high frequencies to the horn. You'd plug one cable that has four leads inside, into that cab, and into a specially designed amp and/or crossover unit that splits the frequencies to two outputs. Instead of running two speaker cables, NL4 cables simplify the job.


    Now... the NL4 can also be used as a safety precaution. Primarily for bridging very powerful amplifiers. They do this so you can't accidentally plug a standard speaker cable into a standard speaker cabinet, and send waaay more juice than that cabinet needs and blow it up in 0.05 seconds. What they do, and is a source of MASS CONFUSION for most bass players with bridgable amps, is they allow hooking up to the positives of both amp channels using a dedicated, specially made cable. What this bridge cable does, is uses an NL4 jack in the amp, and the two hot leads from each channel of the amp wired to the +1 and +2 of the jack. That means a normal NL2 speakon cannot be accidentally plugged into the bridge-output Speakon jack. It simply won't conduct juice. You NEED a NL4 Bridge cable. All that cable is, is one end of the two-lead cable connected to an NL4 Speakon plug, and wired to the +1 and +2 connections of that Speakon plug. The other end just goes to a normal NL2 standard Speakon plug.


    This isn't something that music store sales guys typically understand, nor remember to mention when buying high-end stuff. This is also a reason why we're asking to make sure you've got the right speaker cable. Now, you've already mentioned that your Crest amp has banana plugs, and your cab has a Speakon plug. So the cable you got SHOULD be correct, cuz the nature of the banana plugs and jacks forces you to plug into the red jacks of the amp, for bridging. But... that doesn't mean that the Speakon jack or the Banana jack couldn't be loose.

    Open them up, inspect them, tighten them back up, and try again. After that, it might be an actual break inside the wire somewhere, or the amp itself has issues.
     
  16. groovejam

    groovejam

    Apr 26, 2005
    How would you do a battery test? Just touch the ends of the banana to a 9v and see if it makes a buzz in the schroeder?
     
  17. Bryan316

    Bryan316 Inactive

    Dec 20, 2006
    Detroit
    You just negated my whole last post with one sentence. HAHA! Genius!
     
  18. groovejam

    groovejam

    Apr 26, 2005
    NO i didnt! I didnt see it until I had already posted.


    SO you think I do have the right cable?
     
  19. groovejam

    groovejam

    Apr 26, 2005
    I opened up the speakon end. There are 4 inputs on the speakon plug, and the two cables are pluged into two inputs right beside each other, not across...
     
  20. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    That why they pay me the big bucks!:cool:

    Groovejam: use a 1.5 volt battery instead of a 9-volter if possible, although you'll need a little piece of wire to make the connection. Just touch the battery to the banana end very briefly, and it you hear a thunk the cable is wired correctly, at least for the purposes of this test.
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

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    Jan 27, 2021

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