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Rock Jazz / Fusion Jazz

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by David-Adler, Jun 21, 2001.


  1. David-Adler

    David-Adler

    Feb 28, 2001
    Bonn, Germany
    hey,

    I´ve got to do an essay about these two music styles. Can you tell me any characteristics about these two Jazz Styles, or any good rock jazz and fusion jazz songs I could listen to ?

    Thanks,

    David
     
  2. Blackbird

    Blackbird Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    California
    ,

    Jazz-Rock - Fusion of Jazz + Rock

    Jazz Fusion - Fusion of Jazz with any other music style, like latin or R&B, or whatever.

    ,

    Jazz Rock, Jeff Beck, Blow by Blow

    Fusion, Weather Report, Return to Forever, Late Miles Davis
     
  3. what about something out of
    bitches brew?

    gomez is pushing it, but they have the blues vibe, and thats what jazz is
     
  4. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    Bitches Brew & The Tony Williams Lifetime band are the forerunners of the '70s Jazz Fusion movement; Fusion was supposed to be aimed towards the Rock crowd...many '70s Fusion bands played &/or OPENED for the current/popular Rock bands of that time(Miles OPENED a few times for the "Rockers" at places like The Fillmore).
    The more electric version of Return To Forever & The Mahavishnu Orchestra, both armed with GUITARS, had as many Rock fans as they did "Jazz" fans.
    I've heard '70s bands such as Chicago and Blood, Sweat, & Tears referred to as "Jazz-Rock". The early albums by both these bands are, IMO, essential listening.

    Anyway, a great book, IMO, is Jazz Rock: A History written by Stuart Nicholson(about $20 @ Barnes & Noble).
     
  5. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999

    BW-
    ...hmmmm, I dunno. Blow By Blow, to me, CAN fit into YOUR Fusion definitiion.
    "Do You Know What I Mean", the first tune on that album, is pretty funky & R&B-ish.
    "She's A Woman", The Beatles' tune, is in a reggae-ish vibe with a very Jazzy & at times, Rocked-out guitar solo.
    Most of that album, particularly what's happenin' in the drum/bass area, is more in a R&B/Funk vibe.
    Whatever it is, BBB is one of my all-time favorite recordings(& George Martin produced it).


    Now, "late" Miles as Fusion...
    To me, something likeTribute To Jack Johnson is more in the Jazz-Rock vibe. The bassist on that recording, Michael Henderson, is an R&B player; true, McLaughlin & Miles are soloing...I dunno, check it out!
    BTW, something pretty funny occurs within the first 2 minutes of the opening track, "Right Off"...from what I've read, McLaughlin began jamming some boogie/Rock 'N' Roll-ish guitar & Miles told the enginner to roll tape.
    Henderson then kicked in with a "standard" shuffle/R&B-ish bass figure...The "jam" is in "E"; at about the 2 minute mark, McLaughlin modulates to "Bb". Henderson MISSES this & keeps plunking away in "E"!
    Miles elects to NOT STOP the proceedings! In the middle of this trainwreck, Miles enters & plays a "Db"("C#")...think WHERE that note is relative to McLaughlin's "Bb" & Henderson's "E". Anyway, by playing that particular note, Miles pushes Henderson towards the "Bb". F***ing genius... ;)
     
  6. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    There are a couple of compilations that are pretty good called "Birth of Fusion" - I have volume 2 - and they give a good cross-section of the stuff that was about at the time and the liner notes would probably be good essay material.

    Fusion, I think of as Jazz with electric instruments and rock beats/drums instead of swing - also mostly as a US-based thing.

    But there were a lot of rock groups inluenced by Jazz in terms of improvisation and there were quite a few like this in the UK - dating back to 69/70 with Soft Machine, Caravan and the "Canterbury" Jazz Rock scene. Several King Crimson albums have Jazz influences and Bill Bruford, who played in many rock groups as a drummer is also on the UK Jazz scene. Another Jazz-influenced UK rock group were Collosseum.

    Some people also talk about Cream as being Jazz influenced in their long live improvisations and certainly Jack Bruce has played with many Jazz legends - like in Tony Williams Lifetime and on Carla Bley's "Escalator over the Hill". Even Jimi Hendrix could be seen as Jazz-influenced to a certain degree.

    So to me "Jazz Rock" is made up of rock bands who have a Jazz influence; but "fusion" is the movement to which JimK refers and which really started with Miles Davis, being influenced by Jimi Hendrix.
     
  7. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member Administrator

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    well, this is definitely music related....

    off to miscellaneous[bg]
     
  8. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    I was wonderin' when the hammer would pound this to Misc(I'm floored Bruce didn't catch it)-

    Anyway, I just feel the need to mention a couple of Santana Jazz-Rock albums that MAY be forgotten or overlooked-
    1)Love, Devotion, & Surrender
    2)The Swing Of Delight
    ...I'd like to add Caravansarai BUT, I think I've never heard it(hard to believe, right?). ;)

    An early Fusion album that I just got hip to(& picked up last week) is Spaces by Larry Coryell. Originally released in '74, the personnel is-
    Coryell AND John McLaughlin: guitars
    Chick Corea-Fender Rhodes
    Miroslav Vitous-ACOUSTIC bass
    Billy Cobham-drums

    Bruce-
    ...even when I was a kid, I loved it when Cream stretched out(The Doors & Chicago, too). These "Rock" bands always cited the Jazz musicians of the day as an influence...Coltrane influenced Robbie Krieger!? ;)
     
  9. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Well I think it should be in "Recordings" really ! ;)

    Burns' Jazz series gets to Miles and "fusion" this week on the BBC - I have been getting really annoyed with my TV listings magazine's "misinformation".

    So there is a big picture of Miles with a caption that says something like "the greatest trumpeter of the 20th Century"! :eek: Then it goes on to explain how fusion saw the end of Jazz and that people started listening to rock instead! :rolleyes:

    It's only just starting to sink in, how much Burns left out and how much he concentrates on "personalities" - so Monk, Bird, Diz, and Miles are big personalities that they can talk about and show photos or footage of; but there is so much great music that they have left out to allow this cult of personality to take centre stage. So the only person Burns can see who fits into this category after Miles is Wynton.

    It's like - what happened to the 60s? Miles wasn't the only musician around in the 60s, but we go from "Kind of Blue" in '59 to Jazz is Dead in 1970!
    There was so much innovative and enjoyable music in the 60s and a huge number of recordings - where is "hard bop - maybe it was all just too hard for Burns.;) So like with the earlier periods, there is very little film or decent recordings - so the choices are easier; but there must be a huge amount of material for the 60s - so it just seems "dishonest" to ignore it and then skip to 1970 and fusion!