Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Rosin you bow

Discussion in 'Orchestral Technique [DB]' started by Joe Taylor, Aug 30, 2002.


  1. Joe Taylor

    Joe Taylor

    Dec 20, 2001
    Tracy CA
    When I was in Bass Camp this summer the instructor taught a new rosining technique. He piles on the Cello rosin then gives a good finishing strok or two with bass rosin. I thought "right" then I tried it an it works well you should try it.

    Another tip was using a copper chore boy to clean the rosin off you steel strings. This is someting you just have to try it works so good. Make sure it is a copper chore boy or a brass chore boy. Now I clean my strings at the end of each session. You do have to give the strings two bowings in each direction at the start of the next session but then you just put rosin on you bow so no problem.

    Joe
     
  2. Shmelbee

    Shmelbee

    Mar 28, 2005
    Sioux Falls, SD
    interesting...

    i was looking forward to reading some of the regulars' responses to this, however, nobody has.

    anyone?
     
  3. KSB - Ken Smith

    KSB - Ken Smith Banned Commercial User

    Mar 1, 2002
    Perkasie, PA USA
    Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
    Not many Bassists carry Cello Rosin. Also, it may annoy the Cellists when they see you borrowing their Rosin all the time..lol

    Keep your strings clean, Re-Hair your Bow as needed and use a good Quality 'Bass' Rosin.. Like the rest of the Bass World does.

    Also, use the Best Bowing Strings you can afford. This will make a big difference. Flexocors are the most common and not too expensive. They also last a long time if taken care of. A good Bow will also help and a good 'Bow-responding' Bass as well. Cello Rosin has NEVER been on my Menu.
     
  4. Shmelbee

    Shmelbee

    Mar 28, 2005
    Sioux Falls, SD
    i prefer cello rosin for solos, namely gustave bernadel rosin. this is the stuff Gary uses. lots of the other kids at camp used it for both soloing and orchestra stuff.

    however, im revisiting Beethoven's 5th for an audition i have. at my lesson yesterday my teacher let me use his bow which is rosined with pops, and it worked better. Note, i was using his bass.

    this morning, with my bernadel-rosined bow, and my own bass, i played the trio, and it worked well. i did do a swipe or two of pops and it still worked well. I am considering, though, getting some carlsons rosin for my orchestra stuff, but then there is the issue of soloing again.

    what's a good way to get rosin off your bow? my teacher wipes is bow on his pants...is there a better way?

    man, im rambling again...
     
  5. KSB - Ken Smith

    KSB - Ken Smith Banned Commercial User

    Mar 1, 2002
    Perkasie, PA USA
    Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
    Next they will market Gasparo D'Salo rosin. I owned a G. Bernadel bass in the 70s, b4 you were born. It was b4 the Bernadel-Gand era as it was Appraised by S.Kolstein as c. 1859. I don't think Bernadel cooked up any rosin.

    You admit u need stickier Rosin to play the 5th. We did it last year. I used a Long 42"+ SL Bass with a fingered Ext (My Morelli) and hit all the notes and used Obligato Strings. Now that needs alot of rosin and the Obligatos need a little Bow pressure to play the fast stuff in that piece.

    Cleaning off the Rosin? Whip the Bow from up to down a few times with the hair tightened. That will also align the hairs as well.

    Gary Karr (if that's the Gary you are referring to) is one of the greatest Soloists on Bass of our time. He has not Played in a professional Orchestra to my knowledge or at least not since I was your age (17). Playing in an Orchestra requires the 'hi-test' Rosin...
     
  6. Shmelbee

    Shmelbee

    Mar 28, 2005
    Sioux Falls, SD
    yeah...the bass rosin works well on beethoven

    yes i was referring to Mr. Karr...he's a great guy.

    well, since i was just practicing, and it was not good...any advice on the fast stuff in beethoven? (i play german and my teacher plays french)

    the above teacher mentioned to focus on speed instead of weight for it...i could use a second opinion i guess.

    any advice?
     
  7. KSB - Ken Smith

    KSB - Ken Smith Banned Commercial User

    Mar 1, 2002
    Perkasie, PA USA
    Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
    This is also the Excerpt in the Simandl, no?

    It is in 3/4 but conducted in 'One'. Count carefully and don't rush the first C pickup note. Relaxe and work towards a good smooth sound at a slower tempo first. Try it both in half and first position. the strength of your fingers will tell you how to start the Phrase. c-bcdgab-cbcdef-G....... First Position makes more sense but try both when you practice. It helps with the speed of your shifts.

    There is alot of technique required to play this piece. The slower movement as well with the 32nd note slurs are best practiced in sections at a tempo you can sound good at b4 going faster. After every Concert I play, the first thing I think of is what parts I could have played better. It's not so much a science as it is feel.....Enjoy what you play as much as you can......
     
  8. Shmelbee

    Shmelbee

    Mar 28, 2005
    Sioux Falls, SD
    i dont own simandl, and dont think i ever will.

    but seriously, the 4th movement is killing me.
     
  9. KSB - Ken Smith

    KSB - Ken Smith Banned Commercial User

    Mar 1, 2002
    Perkasie, PA USA
    Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
    What do you have against Simandl? It is great training for the left hand. I have Simandl and Bille. They both have their Metits but Simandl is more of a 'Boot Camp' approach. Maybe if you had gone through the Simandl, this would not be so hard.
     
  10. Shmelbee

    Shmelbee

    Mar 28, 2005
    Sioux Falls, SD
    With all due respect, Mr Smith...

    I asked you for advice, and despite your best efforts, you have offered no real help.

    I have been blessed with an accurate left hand, the thing that is giving me fits is getting the stuff on the bottom two strings clean...i think that has to do with the right hand more than anything.

    also, i dont dig being told that i should have learned a totally different way than how i did. my teachers here have been pretty understanding in my not wanting to learn something that bores me to death. while simandl may have worked for you and many others, it probably didnt/doesnt work for other bassists...its like the whole german/french bow, standing/sitting debate. its all about preference i think.

    I dont think ALL etudes are boring, i read down a new etude every week. I like doing that...i just think that simandl is dull and outdated (how long ago did he die?) but it worked for you, and you're awesome, i gotta hand it to you.

    now, is there any REAL advice i could use from you? I suppose its not that important if you wont help, i was just seeking to learn more than what i learned already...
     
  11. KSB - Ken Smith

    KSB - Ken Smith Banned Commercial User

    Mar 1, 2002
    Perkasie, PA USA
    Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
    I am sorry to have wasted your time in trying to give some friendly advice. I never told my teachers what I liked or didn't like. I did what they told me to do. They play in the NY Philarmonic and it is not up to me or any student to tell them what's fun or what's boring.

    Teaching Bass is not something you do by 'mail' !! I don't have a clue how your Bass responds to your Bow, what kind of strings you have or whatever. How can you expect anyone to fix a problem on line that you have not made clear and one they cannot witness to solve?

    That being said, you can apply for a 'refund' if you think I have over charged you for something you never paid for.

    You have a Teacher, so go ask him. He is the one you pay to take your teenage insults. Bye.........
     
  12. Shmelbee

    Shmelbee

    Mar 28, 2005
    Sioux Falls, SD
    ok...

    my bass is a student model eastman...605 i think.
    I have an unstamped German bow that works well...equate it to the amazing $150 bow that Bob sells.

    I've learned mainly from soloists (unimportant south african soloist that ended up here, and Gary Karr)...but I really want to learn orchestra stuff. I dont 'tell' them what I think of pieces, or whatever. My teachers have been very friendly, almost like second fathers. They care a lot about my progress and they keep in mind that if a kid is learning boring stuff, then the will to learn fades. Gary always let us learn what we had musical concepts of, if that makes sense. I learned WAY more with that in mind than I did with the unimportant south african who made me learn, of all things, dittersdorf. it is a very nice piece, it just doesnt do it for me. A friend of mine, who is a student of David Murray, never learned the Drangonetti or the Koussy...she went straight to Bottesini after her foundation was in place. WHY? she communicated with her teacher who communicated back, and she LOVED the piece. why play something you dont love? how can you possibly make music if you dont love it?

    I guess there are less problems in the Beethoven than i think there are. It actually isnt sounding that bad. I was just looking for, specificly, what you, as a professional, keep in mind right-hand wise when you are playing movements 3 and 4.

    thank you
     
  13. Anon2962

    Anon2962

    Aug 4, 2004
    For the sake of improving a focused area of technique. I've recently started playing the sevcik studies, which are particularly dry, but improve bow control so much that it's exciting to see the results of 3-4 hours on the same open string exercise over just a few days. The only way to have enough control to make music is to have flawless technique. Just my 2c.
     
  14. Shmelbee

    Shmelbee

    Mar 28, 2005
    Sioux Falls, SD
    much appreciated, mccarthy
     
  15. Anon2962

    Anon2962

    Aug 4, 2004
    you're welcome, smellbee
     
  16. jallenbass

    jallenbass Supporting Member Commercial User

    May 17, 2005
    Bend, Oregon
    Since you studied with Gary I assume that you are using less bow on the lower strings than on the higher ones? And as little bow as possible on the really fast low notes? That seems to work for me.
     
  17. Shmelbee

    Shmelbee

    Mar 28, 2005
    Sioux Falls, SD
    yeah, thats what i'm doing, and it sounds fine. It sounded really good today. I guess i just wanted to know what the professionals were doing...thanks

    edit: I started using pop's on my bow again, i hope the scratchy nasal sound goes away when i work on my solos for this audition. I'm thinking of getting some carlson's to try as well.
     
  18. Laurence U.

    Laurence U.

    Oct 25, 2003
    London
    Just my small thoughts, but the 'scratchy nasal sound' should disappear if you were to you less rosin and get your sound by using as much natural weight as possible. In response to your comments about boring stuff, it is completely essential to good musicianship to have the technique behind how you play. As a young student, you shouldn't find basic technical exercises boring or a waste of time unless you have already flawless technique. (Which is gained by perfecting said boring seemingly basic exercises) I am only seventeen but see myself as being blessed by having recently had the the absolute best teaching availabe to a bassist in this country (England). Not to be rude, but I don't see how you can remotely progress to the extent you are capable of, with head f**cking yourself like that. Before you make snotty judgements, I am not incompetent as player, and not just full of talk. I have an impressive cvbehind me, but I know that since losing fairly ridiculous arrogance and cockiness my playing has rocketed immeasurably. Just my 2c, but it greaves me to see the tone you take when someone offers advice, despite what you may think of it.
     
  19. Shmelbee

    Shmelbee

    Mar 28, 2005
    Sioux Falls, SD
    perhaps you're right...

    i apologize for the 'snot' and whatever portrait of myself ive portrayed for you. I really actually think i suck, but thats not the point. And I dont not play etudes, i like etudes, i just dont enjoy simandl, and neither do my teachers...in case i havent made that clear enough already...thanks
     
  20. Johnny L

    Johnny L

    Feb 14, 2002
    Victoria, TX
    The problem with Simandl is that he starts a beginner doing half steps and executing odd-sounding lines strictly in one position for pages at a time. I think Gary Karr is great for introducing shifting from the beginning. It's simply crucial technique for the bassist.

    As a beginner who was required to tape myself while I practiced (to hear my struggles in all their glory and away from the instrument), I recall suffering from intonation problems and not hearing the lines well enough for my brain to tell my fingers where to be on the fingerboard often.

    If I was a teacher helping out beginner bassists, I'd shy from Simandl so I wouldn't have to put up with having to hear that kind of stuff from other beginners either. I'd go for something that offered little nursery rhymes and such, things a kid would be more familiar with and hopefully hear in tune right off the bat...and ease my suffering.

    Other than that Simandl rocks and I'm glad I started with Simandl first. Note for note, it's still the cheapest of all beginner books and if I lost interest in learning the bass back then I wouldn't feel so far set back on the cash-end of things.

    For someone who wanted to learn to play as badly as I did and wasn't afraid to pay for lessons, I'd make the sacrifice...