Dismiss Notice

Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Samples in rap music.....

Discussion in 'Recordings [BG]' started by KampKomfort, Oct 6, 2000.


  1. KampKomfort

    KampKomfort

    Jul 27, 2000

    Over the years, I have noticed that many rap songs simply rap over older songs with the words removed (and sometimes with an added boomy bass track). I've never been very fond of rap music, but I have noticed that the sampled music often has a a good groove to it. For example, Ice Cube's "Good Day" has a really music, but I have no idea what it is. All I know that it does exist, I think as a 70's R&B tune.

    Does anyone know of a resource where I could find the original artists of the music? It's pretty sad when these songs get brought to my attention this way, but that's another discussion. Thanks!

    KK
     
  2. Yes, this is a particularly sore spot with me, so I won't go off on a rant here...But if you want to know the original artists on those Rap samples, I think they are required by law to list on the album credits the artist(s) that they ripped off their grooves from. I don't care if they paid royalties, I don't care if they got permission,
    I think song samples on RAP albums are an example of the inability of the Rapper to come up with original stuff...Oh, I promised I wouldn't start ranting, sorry...
     
  3. KampKomfort

    KampKomfort

    Jul 27, 2000
    Good point--I could probably find the source of the samples in the liner notes of the CD. My problem now is that I don't own any of these rap albums (thank goodness). I have just heard them over the years in passing.

    Does anyone know of a website that lists full credits? CDNow.com and Amazon.com just list main credits (just the rappers and producers, no musicians. funny, isn't it?).

    KK

    [Edited by KampKomfort on 10-08-2000 at 01:17 AM]
     
  4. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    They do sometimes put the credits in the CD notes. There is a very good UK group - Massive Attack - who list all the samples they have used very carefully. And they even gave Billy Cobham a writing credit, for using one of the tracks from Stratus as the backing for a song/rap that did quite well in the charts over here.
     
  5. MatW

    MatW

    May 10, 2000
    UK, Swindon
    God. Does anyone remember that awful Vanilla Ice record that sampled 'Under Pressure'? I'm glad he got sued for pinching that.

    Also Beats International (aka FatBoySlim) ripped off The Clash for 'Dub be good to me'. He got sued big time as well!
     
  6. jazzbo

    jazzbo

    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    In the beginning, the samples were used creatively. Rappers normally just took one hook or riff, added some additional grooves, some other melodies, and did make music I would consider very creative. Check out what the Beastie Boys did on Licensed to Ill. Also Run DMC on Raising Hell. The key was that there was always original music added.

    Now, "rappers" like Puff Daddy and Will Smith have taken to just "sampling" the whole song. I don't even consider this sampling. It defies the definition of the word itself. A sample is a portion, a small amount of a larger whole. That's not what's happening now. Like you said KK, they just throw some heavy bass over it. It really does take such little creativity to do that. How many of us listen to songs and sometimes sing silly lyrics on top of it.

    Grandmaster Flash, The Fabulous Four, Afrika Bambata, Run DMC, Beastie Boys, these guys had talent. They were creative. Sure they used a lot of old James Brown, Delfonics, Motown, Marvin Gaye, etc, but they only took a little hook, sometimes only a few bars at a bridge or intro, then they created new music over it. Mainy layers. It's too bad to see what rap has turned in to. Oversampled songs, videos littered with half-naked women, showing off money, liquor, and cars, and guns guns guns. Bands like Public Enemy, BDP, and others, always had something to say, and were definitely creative.
     
  7. stoma guy

    stoma guy

    Sep 23, 2004
  8. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck

    Apr 21, 2000
    Atlanta / Macon (sigh)
    Gallien Krueger for the last 12 years!
    "It Was a Good Day" sampled "Footsteps in the Dark", by the Isley Brothers.
     
  9. only just noticed? damn..

    but coolio sampled stevie wonders pastime paradise
    snoop dogg and various others never end sampling parliament, george clinton, bootsy and james brown...

    lil bow bow sampled george clintons atomic dog

    check out some tribe called quest, they've sampled heaps of jazz, they've sampled return to forever a fair few times..check out tribes cd's, they have a 'discology' of what they sampled on each song
     
  10. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck

    Apr 21, 2000
    Atlanta / Macon (sigh)
    Gallien Krueger for the last 12 years!
    It's not just rap. Beck has sampled, as have other rock acts. SWV sampled "Portriat of Tracy" for their song "Rain Down On Me". I like Ghostface's (Wu Tang) approach. He raps over the WHOLE song, lyrics and all! It's actually quite funny.
     
  11. Marlat

    Marlat

    Sep 17, 2002
    London UK
    Led Zeppelin?

    Jet?

    :D
     
  12. i saw DMX has done a version of bill withers aint no sunshine :eyebrow: ..its interesting to say the least..
     
  13. Against Will

    Against Will Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    Big Sound Central
    A lot of people dismiss sampling as "lack of creativity", but it suddenly becomes ok when someone rips off a riff using an instrument. (For example, Green Day's "Warning" and the Kinks' "Picture Book")

    Hip-hop is creating some of the most vibrant music around today, yes there is some recycling, but that's true of any musical movement. The Who, Pink Floyd and a number of other groups that are considered musical geniuses started out as cover groups.

    Anyone who believes that sampling = crap music should listen to Madlib's "Shades of Blue", or his work with Madvillain.
     
  14. Marlat

    Marlat

    Sep 17, 2002
    London UK
    I believe the Avalanche's album is entirely composed of samples. Well worth a listen, its got some great stuff on it!
     
  15. but there is a point where it becomes completely idiodic...look at jet, it may no be sampling, but the got a ride off an iggy pop song
     
  16. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002
    This thread could get ugly. Be careful with your opinions, remember, a lot of people really like the music you might not like they are no more wrong than you are for disliking it, everyone has different tastes for different reasons, trying to anchor everything based on your opinion isn't going to do anyone any good. Above all though, please refrain from ridiculous generalizations, if you don't have any real input, don't reply.
     
  17. atldeadhead

    atldeadhead

    Jun 17, 2002
    Georgia
    Don't be fooled into thinking that rap and hip hop artist's are not as talented as any other kind of musician. Yeah, sometimes the sampling can be a little overboard but they are still quite talented in their own right. Have you actually ever tried to rap? It's not as easy as you think because you have to employ not only the vocabulary, aka singing, but you also have to deal with the rhythmic aspect. As bass players I would think that you could at least respect it from this point of view.

    If you wanna check out an amazing hip-hop group that uses samples AND real LIVE musicians I encourage you to check out "The Roots". You can download a lot of free, legal, live roots music at this website. Some really amazing jams and incredible word play. If you go into this with an open mind you might just find yourself bobbing your head and enjoying it.
     
  18. im not against rap music..just some of it is completely crap..its hard to find some good stuff..but check out some meshell ndegeochello, erykah badu..outkast is rather good so's weird al :smug:
     
  19. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    hehe, the good ol' "hip hop" debates...

    Well, as a hip hop fan, I'd have to say I've been through every cycle and phase that I could possibly go through, from the "just a kid in elementary/jr.high school listening to whatever I liked without much thought" times, to my listen to whatever everyone else was listening to in high school, to my rebellious "only underground artists!" phase, and now back to my "whatever dude, as long as I like it" thoughts.

    Having said that, I know that there are definitely sub-genres for everyone's tastes (just like every other type of music). Not all hip hop is meant for everyone. Basically, IMO, if you don't dig it, it's probably not meant to be targeted towards you and you are better off listening to some other sub-genre. You have the right to like it or not like it. Definitely. But personally for me, I've hated stuff only to accept it when I could finally understand the perspective of where it's coming from and accept that it's just for someone else.

    Regarding sampling: Yup, all levels of sampling going on in hip hop. Some more creative than others, definitely. But I'd have to agree that it takes a lot of talent to do this in general. Think about it: It takes a LOT of vision to know what a minute section of a song you can loop and maybe add to it, and get people to regard it as a whole new song. There are certainly rip offs that are in bad taste. But man, a big part of my record collection has been collecting originals to my favorite hip hop songs and it is A LOT of fun, and it is AMAZING what some people come up with. The most random of seconds of a song, parts that don't even appear more than once! It's so awesome to hear an original to a song that isn't so in your face. Plus you get real insight as to what the artist's idea of music and mindset is. Not to mention the exposure I got to music I probably would have taken years upon years to consider listening to.

    For example, try finding the originals from artists like Souls Of Mischief or anyone in Hieroglyphics. Or one of the best producers in my fav era of hip hop Premier of GangStarr. His sample use is utterly genius. In an interview, he even admitted that he's used samples in such ways that in the end, he didn't need to clear them because they no longer were anything close to the original. HE couldn't even hear simliarities anymore. Very interesting, really.

    On that note, if you are getting around to the point where you can't stand the hip hop you are hearing, I can understand. Try listening to some more involving stuff. Try some of my favorite artists and albums (especially their older stuff) like:

    Del the Funky Homosapien (try "No Need for Alarm"...AWESOME)

    Souls of Mischief ("93 til Infinity", my vote for one of the best hip hop albums of all time)

    De La Soul ("3 Feet High and Rising" or "De La Soul is Dead")

    Jurassic 5 (ooh, you'll like this... try "Quality Control")

    Black Sheep (hilarious, "A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing", very jazzy)

    Digable Planets (speaking of jazz..."Reachin': A New Refutation of Time and Space" AWESOME AWESOME)

    A Tribe Called Quest (classics..."Low End Theory", "Midnight Marauders" or anything around that time)

    Stetsasonic ("In Full Gear"...one of the firsts to do live instruments...jazzy, and great)

    Any turntablist's album...wanna see what not only using samples but the messing around of records can do? You'd be amazed. Some of my fav DJ's: Babu, Shadow, Cut Chemist, X-men (Xecutioners), etc

    I could go on and on. There are much more "underground" artists, there are much more mainstream artists, but these are some of my favs that are easy to get into and are solid classics in anyone's eyes.

    Hope it helps!

    -T
     
  20. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck

    Apr 21, 2000
    Atlanta / Macon (sigh)
    Gallien Krueger for the last 12 years!
    Gotta add the Pharcyde's "A Bizarre Ride with the Pharcyde".