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Sansamp BDDI into Sansamp RBI for live DI situation

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by DeadbeatLine, May 16, 2017.


  1. DeadbeatLine

    DeadbeatLine

    Nov 13, 2013
    Hey all.

    I'm a bass player in an Alternative Rock band that feature some experimental and progressive areas, and as such I use a few different pedals.

    My pedal board order and list is as follows. Bass (Fender Blacktop Jazz) -> Korg PitchBlack -> EHX Bass Soul Preacher Comp -> Sansamp BDDI (I use this set up as a light overdrive/EQ, i.e. with the intent of going into my amp, not as a standalone DI) -> EHX POG2 (used for a subtle sub boost during chorus's/Heavy parts) -> Boss ODB-3 (used for grindy distortion) -> EHX Deluxe Bass Big Muff Pi (used only a few times on songs)-> Bass Whammy V -> Ampeg SVT-II Pro

    For a quick easier to read version: Bass -> Tuner -> Comp -> Sansamp BDDI -> Distortion -> POG2 -> Fuzz -> Whammy -> Amp.

    I LOVE the sound that I get. I routinely get lots of comments and interest in my tone live, and whilst I'm very very aware its definitely not everyones cup of tea and very genre specific, I'm proud of it.

    My struggle is that when I'm unable to use the ampeg live and having to use a DI (for example the sound guy not being keen on Mic'ing the cab, or not wanting me to crank it). The Sansamp is set up that its being used as an EQ/Overdrive, and not for a FOH sound. I've tried using it at the end of my chain with all the effects going into it, but Distortion and fuzz sound absolutely nasty and ratty as hell through it, and just changing the order of where its placed in the first place changes my sound which I'm not keen on.

    So because I have my amp in a rack, I'm thinking of buying the Sansamp RBI to run all my pedals into, and then setting the EQ to be as close as realistically possible to my ampeg with any rattyness dialed out and having this be sent to FOH as my DI signal, and then running the uneffected output into my ampeg and using it as normal.

    Would this work? Or would you guys suggest any other alternatives? (ideally 1U sized for a rack)

    sorry for the long message! Thanks!
     
  2. Ba55Man1ac

    Ba55Man1ac Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2004
    Sydney, Australia
    Heya. Do you realise that the RBI is the rackmount version of the BDDI? If you don't like fuzz - BDDI you're probably not going to like fuzz - RBI.

    It's not rackmount but how about an OmniCabSim at the end or SCR-DI if you're dead keen on Ampeg? They've done a few rm preamps over the years too.
     
    Fuzzbass likes this.
  3. SerratedBass

    SerratedBass

    Nov 4, 2010
    UK
    Endorsing Artist: Warwick Bass Guitars,
    Sounds like a good idea to me. I run a sansamp at the end of my chain and come out of the parallel to the amp. Works great because of the cab simulation aspect, sounds like a mic'd amp.

    A cheaper option than an RBI or other rackmount pre would be a pedal, if you have space on your board. So a second Sansamp BDDI, or the new version 2. You could try the VT bass DI also. I have no direct experience with that pedal, but if you have an Ampeg, and dig the tone you already have going into it, then I would say it's going to sound spot on as your 'FOH amp' signal. Not sure if the Ampeg DI's have built in speaker simulation or if they are just a preamp. Big difference in my experience if it doesn't have some kind of speaker emulation as distortions sound like buzz saws direct to the desk if it doesn't. Means the sound guy has a lot more to do to make it sit in the mix. With the sansamp pedals you can dial it in at home if you have a recording interface and monitors, and then a sound guy only has minimal stuff to do, and can't butcher 'your' tone as much.
     
  4. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Commercial User

    Aug 17, 2010
    Manufacturer: Tech 21
    Where do you have the Blend set on the Bass Driver DI when using it at the end of your chain as a DI direct to the mixer?
     
  5. DeadbeatLine

    DeadbeatLine

    Nov 13, 2013
    I think unfortunately you missed my point, my BDDI is set up to be EQ'd and used as a light overdrive, rather than being EQ'd to be used as a DI. Therefore when my distortion/fuzz pedals are ran into it and then out to FOH, it sounds very ratty as it's essentially adding more treble and high end grit to the already distorted signal from the odb-3. My point is that id run my current signal chain into the RBI, EXCEPT the RBI would be EQ'd as a good DI sound as realistically close to my SVT (with the trebly buzz dialed out when using the distortion pedal, not as an overdrive).
     
  6. DeadbeatLine

    DeadbeatLine

    Nov 13, 2013
    Admittedly I haven't experimented with the blend control with the BDDI at the end of my chain, but I like the BDDI exactly where it is in my order because through experimentation it seems to work best there and sounds best going into my distortion/fuzz rather than after, i.e. using it for EQ purposes rather than a DI, which is why I was thinking of buying the RBI (1. Because I have a 1u rack space free and 2. So I'd essentially have a BDDI I'd use for DI purposes rather than overdrive/EQ purposes)
     
  7. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Commercial User

    Aug 17, 2010
    Manufacturer: Tech 21
    When you go direct with distortion you need a speaker sim, otherwise you will get the fizz and hash. You probably won't hear that through your amp because you amp's speaker system is rolling off those frequencies. You should be able to see if this will work by trying the Bass Driver before you purchase the RBI since they are basically the same circuit. You need to have the Blend turned up full to get rid of the fizz. The EQ most likely will not be sufficient to dial it out.
     
    taylor16 likes this.
  8. DeadbeatLine

    DeadbeatLine

    Nov 13, 2013
    I fully understand what you're saying, but I don't think you understand what I mean, I have the BDDI with specific settings and placement in my pedal chain to achieve a specific sound, I do not get the same sound with it anywhere else in my pedal order (e.g. at the end of my pedal chain, this I imagine must be due to various gain stages and changing the EQ of the signal before it hits distortion/fuzz).

    Therefore I was interested in the RBI to essentially act as a 'second' BDDI except I'd use this one with settings for a good DI sound (which may well include having the blend all the way up if needs be) rather than my current BDDI which is set to achieve a certain sound through my amp.
     
  9. Ba55Man1ac

    Ba55Man1ac Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2004
    Sydney, Australia
    Sounds like a unique setup, I for one would be interested how it works out for you.

    Don't forget the VT rackmount (oops, looks like it's discontinued, might have to be s/h).
     
  10. DeadbeatLine

    DeadbeatLine

    Nov 13, 2013
    Thank you! Yes it's a reasonably unique set up, I like to be a bit out of the box with it (im surprised no one picked up on both the Whammy and POG! Hahah.)

    People couldn't understand why I'd want to use a BDDI into an SVT in the first place either, but it sounds great!
     
    Fuzzbass and Ba55Man1ac like this.
  11. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Commercial User

    Aug 17, 2010
    Manufacturer: Tech 21
    No I get that. It's the way many use the pedal. It sounded like you were trying to use the pedal as the DI and were experiencing a sound you didn't like because the amp was was no longer in the equation. Changing the order of any effects chain will change the sound.

    Perhaps I don't understand how you are using everything. My point was that if you wanted to subtract the Bass Driver DI from it's normal use and try it as an amp replacement that would let you know that the RBI would work for you in that application. Are you saying that the way you normally use the Bass Driver DI is as an always on pedal?

    If you normally have your amp mic'd, your sound to the FOH has the sound of a speaker which eliminates the excessive high end and harshness that will be present with distortion and fuzz. To use a DI in place of that you need a speaker sim which is part of the SansAmp circuit.
     
  12. DeadbeatLine

    DeadbeatLine

    Nov 13, 2013
    Ah thats my fault, I forgot to add that yes, I use the BDDI as an always on pedal. Whoops! I understand the confusion now hahah.

    I could very well as you suggested try it as an amp replacement and see how if it eliminates the harshness! (though understanding that I wont have the same always-on sound) Either way it'll be a good way to roughly decide if it'll work.


    Now, as a further question, would a Rack VT (if I can find one for sale) work better than an RBI? whats the tonal difference? Admittedly I have zero experience with the VT pedal and its differences from the BDDI.
     
  13. Ba55Man1ac

    Ba55Man1ac Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2004
    Sydney, Australia
    I like the VT range over the BDDI/RBI. They sit in the mix really well with just the right amount of clank & grind. Obviously with such adjustable units there's some common ground so I guess it'll be down to your preferences. My advice would be to look through the manuals & see which fills your needs best.
     
  14. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Gold Supporting Member

    The cab sim suggestion is a good one. I recommend the DSM Noisemaker OmniCabSim. Tech21 just came out with the Q\Strip that might also give you what you want, but I haven't tried it and I'm not completely familiar with its feature set.

    Anyway, here's what you could do (assuming I understand your situation correctly): you could use your very same setup, but add the OmniCabSim (OCS) after the BDDI. Your feed to the sound system would come from the OCS, not the BDDI. You could tweak the OCS (perhaps with your soundman's help) so that it rolls off the harshness of the overdrive and makes him happy. You would then use the THROUGH (parallel) output on the OCS to send the signal to your stage amp. That way, you and the soundman could tweak the OCS any way you wanted, and it wouldn't alter your stage tone.
     
  15. DeadbeatLine

    DeadbeatLine

    Nov 13, 2013
    I'll search around on this site for opinions of the VT vs the BDDI/RBI! Thanks again!

    And with regards to the OCS, thats a really good idea Fuzzbass. Unfortunately, my pedal board is full so I can't accommodate another one else i'd gladly look into that! This is another reason why I go for a rackmounted DI, I've got a 1U rack space free above my amp! (which is in a specially built rack enclosure with a 1U space above it)
     
  16. DeadbeatLine

    DeadbeatLine

    Nov 13, 2013
    From a quick search around and a couple videos, a general consensus I seem to find is that the BDDI does scooped 'modern metal' sounds seemingly better than the VT, can anyone chime in on any opinion for or against this?
     
  17. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass P5 with overdrive Gold Supporting Member

    The Character control on the VT is interesting: turning it counterclockwise results in scoop, turning it clockwise results in more overdrive but also a midrange boost. Just throwing it out there as an FYI, I have no opinion on which device is better for modern metal.



    Ah, gotcha. You could simulate a cab simulator (so to speak) by using a rackmount EQ that has variable lowpass filter (LPF) to trim highs and highpass filter (HPF) to trim lows, plus other EQ controls of course, but I'm not that knowledgeable about rack EQs. So, good luck with the VT vs RBI investigation, I can see how either of those could solve your problem.
     
  18. taylor16

    taylor16

    Dec 25, 2012
    USA
    I wanted something similar but more transparent so I had Broughton make this for me:

    DI/XLR with gain and adjustable HPF/LPF

    Works incredibly well for sending dirt via DI.
     

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  19. Upon first reading your post a VT bass came to mind, glad to hear others have already mentioned it.

    Then you can tune it up as close as possible to your normal ampeg tone, shoot that to the board, run to your amp. Use the BDDI as a "overdrive" pedal in a way. the speaker sim in the VT Deluxe would clear things up a bit...

    Unless this would be redundant. Then ignore everything i've said! ;)
     
  20. DeadbeatLine

    DeadbeatLine

    Nov 13, 2013
    Think I might try to aim for the VT Bass rack after all. If there are none available for easily then I don't mind settling for the RBI as they'll both get the job done, but the VT seems to be more accurate to an Ampeg, which is my existing stage amp anyway and would allow more consistency with my amp tone VS my DI tone.

    Plus with a rack VT and a BDDI I can compare the two and if needed or if it sounds better, eventually sell the BDDI for a VT pedal or the VT Rack for a RBI! Best of both worlds!
     

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