Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Schaller Double-J Pickups

Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by whitedk57, May 5, 2005.


  1. whitedk57

    whitedk57

    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    I just purchased some Schaller Double-J pickups on Ebay. Now I am wondering how they need to be wired. Does anybody know where I might be able to find a wiring diagram/schematic?

    Thanks,
    whitedk57 (newbie) :bassist:
     
  2. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    white coil start green coil finish; brown start yellow finish and they wire like any other passives. You can double check them with a meter if you have one but that's what mine are.
     
  3. whitedk57

    whitedk57

    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    Excuse my ignorance on the subject, but I am not sure even how to wire other passives. Do you have a link to a wiring diagram that might help explain it?

    Thanks
     
  4. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    There's a bunch of them and a search will pull up threads with a whole list of links - any of the major pup manufacturers for starters - Bartolini, Duncan (seymourduncan.com), Dimarzio (Dimarzio.com), guitarelectronics.com - that pop into mind. Most the Bart stuff is with their preamps so I'd go to Bartolini.net if you're using a Bart preamp.

    But for passives, wiring is wiring and all you really need to know is what leads go to what coil. Unless it's tapped (which is rare these days) there will only be a start and a finish. That pup is a quad so you have 8 leads - each basically equivalent to a single coil pickup in terms of wiring.
     
  5. winston

    winston Supporting Member

    May 2, 2000
    Berkeley, CA
    Oh golly! Can't help you with wiring but my very first bass guitar (circa 1984) was a Kramer Pioneer JJ with those big Schaller pickups. Neck was wired as a humbucker, bridge had a series/parallel/single coil switch. Had a good range of tones and the allen screw polepieces let you even out string volumes. Let us know how you like them.
     
  6. whitedk57

    whitedk57

    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    If I wanted to wire each half of the double j's to a separate volume pot, would I wire the the whole rig like this? (see link below)

    Stew Mac Jazz Bass Wiring Diagram

    But if I wanted to wire them in series to one volume pot, how would I do that?

    Here is my guess - let me know if I am wrong...

    Jazz pup 1 => p1
    Jazz pup 2 => p2

    p1 North Start - HOT (to volume pot)
    p1 North Finish - to p1 South Finish
    p1 South Finish - to p1 North Finish
    p1 South Start - to p2 North Start

    p2 North Start - to p1 South Start
    p2 North Finish - to p2 South Finish
    p2 South Finish - to p2 North Finish
    p2 South Start - to GROUND

    Thanks in advance for your help...
    whitedk57
     
  7. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    to be honest, I don't even use pots and rarely switches unless required. Trying to decipher that garbage (nothing personal just my gut reaction to a bunch of wires) gives me a headache. And when I do mess with it, I just plod away until it's right - and rip it out after the pup run. Regardless, it's all the leads of the pup that make it so useful and it just goes with the territory. So we'll knock it out one way or another.

    Off the cuff, that stewmac diagram looks goofie to me with an extra set of wires daisey chained on one side of the pups - don't know what's up with that. Maybe another TB'r will.

    Here is duncan 4 lead diagram (functionally you have these two put together).

    http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/support/schematics/jazz_bass_stacks.html

    Notice fewer wires (cause the wierd deal on stewmac was cause the lug is not grounded to the pot back as they commonly are) and that all the pots face the same direction. Anytime I get a diagram with pots pointing in different directions I look for another diagram cause it swaps the directions of the grounds and hots and otherwise confuses me.

    You can wire the schaller in series just like this by changing the color code: S White for SD black, S Green for SD red, S Brown for SD white, S yellow for SD green. * note this is not the Schaller/SD color code conversion, the SD diagram is in parallel and you want series so they have to be inappropriately scrambled but that should work for (now you see why I avoid this stuff - for the most part).

    You can minimize the phone junction box look by doing what I suggested in this thread:

    http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178671

    With all those Schaller leads, you need to cut the number of wires to a minimum unless you want a control bay that looks like a pan of spaghetti.

    For series in pickups, speakers whatever, you use the start (positive) of one coil for the hot lead, tie the finish (negative) of the coil to the start of the next coil, and use the finish of the second coil as the negative or ground lead. You just continue the same daisey chain for the rest of the coils if you want to run the whole pup in series. So you'll end up with only two free leads, the start of the first coil and the finish of the last coil (in the chain) or 4 free leads if you split front and rear coils.

    You pretty much picked the most difficult pup (in terms of complexity) for your first transplant.

    There may even be an issue with certain poles needing to be wired in a certain order to keep the pup from getting wierd. For my first run I wired front coils parallel and back coils parallel and there was a lot more punch on the E & A strings. That may be a magnetic pole relationship issue or it may be I just need to adjust the pole pieces to compensate. Don't know cause haven't messed with it yet. Currently the front coils are wired in series and the back coils are wired in series and I'm going to do a run that way before I mess with anything else with it.
     
  8. A9X

    A9X

    Dec 27, 2003
    Sinny, Oztraya
    One of the beauties of this pup, is the myriad of wiring configs possible. When I get my pair in a week or so, I want to investigate what can be wrung out of these babies, and can see the following options (for an individual double J pup):

    1: SC, bridge side, two coils in series
    2: SC, neck side, two coils in series
    3: SC, bridge side, both coils parallel
    4: SC, neck side, both coils parallel
    5: Std parallel; bridge coils seriesed, neck coils seriesed, both sides paralleled
    6: Full parallel; all 4 coils in parallel.
    7: Full series; all 4 coils in series
    8: P
    9: Reverse P
    10: Wide Aperture Series: both EA coils in parallel, then seriesed with both DG coils in parallel.

    As I'm a bit busy at the moment, does anyone want to work out the switching for this? At first glance, without using a big Shallco switch that would stick a couple of inches out the front of the bass, multiple switches would be needed even to get the reduced option set below. Crosspoint switch chips, and a microcontroller or swtich/diode bridge would work too.

    Options 1/2 and 3/4 probably won't vary that much from each other tonally and so one of each could be selected. Ditto with 8/9. I'm not sure 6 will be all that useful (but I could be wrong) and 7 maybe only useful in acoustically bright basses. I've never tried it, but I have a good hunch about #10. Either way, still probably leaves about half a dozen usefully different sounds from one pickup.
     
  9. whitedk57

    whitedk57

    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC

    I think I have figured out the wiring that I want to do. Once I draw it up I will post it. I am going to wire in a switch so that I can use them in series or parallel.

    See you soon.
     
  10. A9X

    A9X

    Dec 27, 2003
    Sinny, Oztraya
    That's straighforward. Just wire the two coils on each side in series, then use the 4 wire diagrams that Dimarzio or Bartolini publish.
     
  11. whitedk57

    whitedk57

    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    Here is the schematic that I drew up...

    My DOuble J Schematic

    I plan to have two switches, one for in-phase/out-of-phase and one for series/parallel. It's not a terribly difficult scheme, but it should be enough wires to make it interesting.

    If anybody sees any glaring problems, please let me know.

    (I must give credit to guitarelectronics.com for the idea - i just married two separate ideas together)
     
  12. I just bought two of these (on ebay as well). I want to wire them up in a custom bass I'm building so that I can switch (with a rotory switch) between the following classic configurations:

    P-Bass
    PJ Combo
    Jazz Bass
    Bridge Humbucker
    Bridge Humbucker and neck J

    I think I've got most of the wiring worked out. What I can't figure out for sure is if this pickup could be wired as a true humbucker. The pup has 8 leads (start and finish for four different coils). But in a true humbucker isn't one of the coils physically flipped?

    In just one pup, I could wire the bridge side coils in series and the neck side coils in series. This would give me four wires with a start and finish for two (functionally) coils. Can I just follow a standard humbucker wiring diagram at that point to create a humbucker out of this beast of a pickup?
     
  13. DharmaBass - take a look at a 5 or 6 way rotary switch. It may simplify your controls.
     
  14. A9X

    A9X

    Dec 27, 2003
    Sinny, Oztraya
    I know, that's my intention. But.... I haven't found one with enough poles and decks to do all the switching I can anticipate that will actually fit inside the bass control cavity. They're all way too deep. When I get a bass cut for one of these pups, I'll use a big 8 deck Shallco switch I have laying around (about 6" deep), play with the configs for a while, see what I like and find a way to get the best half dozen or so combinations that give the sort of spectrum I want onto a single rotary switch for each pup.
     
  15. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    both J's in that pup are effectively humbuckers - that is it has two humbuckers. The "flip" is reverse wound or in this case simply reversing current flow - ie. instead of wiring positive to negative for the pair tied for series, simply tie both negatives. That effectively reverses the current flow in one of the coils.
     
  16. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    well let me know when you've done the footwork cause I've got rotary out of PRS McCarty that's just sitting in a drawer doing nothing :- )
     
  17. A9X

    A9X

    Dec 27, 2003
    Sinny, Oztraya
    Will do. But it might be a while.
     
  18. I'm sorry but you have to use small words and talk slowly with me when it comes to wiring. Pictures help too. Here's a diagram of what this pickup looks like with the two South coils wired in series together and the two north coils wired in series together. http://www.trey-mitchell.com/images/diagram.gif

    How do I complete this wiring to make this a humbucker?

    Thanks!
     
  19. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    Sorry, don't mess enough with wiring to know diagramming/pictures - I have a hard enough time getting letters in the correct order in words.

    from what I can tell skimming that diagram the layout of the poles is incorrect with the ones I've got.
    It is:
    SS white SF green NS Brown NF Yellow

    So if you want 4 free leads per pup in series humbucking, tieing yellow and green on each end of the pup with brown being hot (start) and white being ground leads.
     
  20. OK, apparently my first diagram left something to be desired. Here's a new diagram http://www.trey-mitchell.com/images/wiring2.gif

    This shows all 8 wires in color and labeled as I understand them to be. (I made the white leads gray for obvious reasons.)

    I've made an attempt at showing how I *think* this 4 coil pup would be wired to make it function as a dual coil humbucker.

    Can someone smarter than me (not exactly hard to do) take a look and tell me if this is right?

    Thanks!