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Schaller Double-J Pickups

Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by whitedk57, May 5, 2005.


  1. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    That would work. What I'm not certain about is which poles need to be reversed to make it hum canceling - or if it matters in this case. You've reversed both North poles and I staggered the reversal (actually you reversed a north and a south. I couldn't look at the diagram during the post). Either way, two of the coils are reversed but there is an issue with the relationship of which poles need to be for certain wiring schemes.

    Since it's split in half, you've probably got it right.

    All I can say is try it and see what you get, you're not going to harm anything in the process.
     
  2. First of all thanks to everyone for their help on this so far. Assuming I've got the correct wiring configuration to make this 4 coil pup function like a 2 coil humbucker (http://www.trey-mitchell.com/images/wiring2.gif ) I think I've also worked out my complete wiring diagram for my project bass.

    This bass will have two of the Schaller double j pickups and a six way switch that will allow me to switch between six classic pickup configurations (in theory anyway).

    http://www.trey-mitchell.com/images/wiring3.gif

    The six configs I'm shooting for are:
    1. Split P bass
    2. P-J combo
    3. Jazz bass (2 single coils)
    4. Jazz + Humbucker
    5. Split P + Humbucker
    6. Bridge Humbuker only

    If any of you could take a look and tell me if I've got this right (including a look at my humbucker wiring above) I'd sure appreciate it.

    Thanks!
     
  3. Ok, I'm replying to my own post which feels a lot like talking to myself. Anyway, from reading other posts in other Talk Bass discussions as well as re-reading (for about the 4th time) humbucker theory on http://www.guitarnuts.com I've come to the conclusion that my wiring scheme is totally bunk.

    I wasn't paying enough attention to the polarity of the individual coils. Furthermore, my idea of making one of the pickups work like a split P isn't going to work out exactly as I hoped because the diagonal coils on this pup have the same polarity and a true split P is humbucking thus the two coils have opposite polarity.

    I think I'll be able to get something close to the split P sound with a sort of side by side humbucker. It will still be a split coil humbucker, it's just that both coils will be in the same position relative to the bridge rather than being offset a little.

    Am I making any sense? As I'm talking to myself here I guess it really doesn't matter does it? ;)

    At any rate, it's back to the drawing board with my wiring diagram. :meh:
     
  4. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    the split P issue at the neck is unlikely to make any difference. To my knowledge, the only reason Leo staggered them to begin with was he came up with that idea before he invented the J pup. The split bi-poles were to overcome the issue of volume drop from bending strings of that intial 4 pole single pup. It's more likely you'd notice a difference at the bridge but I doubt you'll be able to tell either. At least I haven't been able to tell any difference in a J width.

    As far as the lack of input, with 16 leads and a pair of rotary switches, you're comparatively building a rocket ship. All that's lacking is a bongo preamp.

    Don't expect a lot of company when you climb Everest cause the few that have been there are likely to take a been there done that attitude. You probably should have predicated a go it alone project from the outset. Regardless, a good learning lesson no matter what comes of it.
     
  5. I went back to the drawing board with my wiring diagrams and now think I've resolved the issues I had previously.

    Here you can see a simplified diagram for 3 different possible configs for this pickup. It includes a split coil humbucker (p-bass), single coil (jazz) and dual coil humbucker.

    http://www.trey-mitchell.com/images/pickups.gif

    The mistake I made before was thinking too much about the physical position of the pickups and not enough about the polarity (magnetic and electrical) of the coils. I've tested all three of these out and they seem to work.

    Here's my complete wiring diagram. It uses the three basic configs with a six position rotary switch to get a P-Bass, Jazz Bass, P-J combo, humbucker, etc. I also threw in a series/parallel switch for good measure that should at least work on positions 2-5. Positions 1 and 6 only have one pickup activated and the switch should do nothing in these cases. I haven't tried this one out yet.

    http://www.trey-mitchell.com/images/wiring5.gif

    Luknfur says I'm climbing Everest here (and that was before the series/parallel switch) but I am hoping someone could take a look and see if I've done anything seriously wrong.

    Otherwise I'll just let you know how it turns out in a few weeks.

    Thanks!
     
  6. whitedk57

    whitedk57

    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    Topper,

    Well, I have attempted to create my own schematic
    based on the information that you had. Basically, I
    want to have a jazz setup and a humbucker setup.

    The jazz setup will have series and parallel
    configuration. Actually, the parallel is not really
    parallel - each side of the double j will have a jazz
    config running to their own volume pots.

    The humbucker setup is what you came up with. In the
    included diagram, switch 2 needs to be set to the
    series position - the parallel position does nothing
    for the humbucker setup.

    I will also run the true split P dimarzios to another
    volume pot, but I did not include that in this
    diagram. I figured that the tone pot was unneccessary
    since I always have it turned to high anyway.

    Look it over and see if you can figure it out. Let me
    know if you see something wrong. I appreciate your
    help.

    whitedk57
    Schaller JJ Wiring
     
  7. whitedk57

    whitedk57

    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    Going back over the replies for this post, I came across one where somebody mentioned the specific Kramer bass it came from. So I searched the VintageKramer.com forum and found me a picture.

    Maybe this guy will be nice enough to spec out the wiring for the double jazz. I just want to see how Kramer wired this bad boy.

    Kramer Pioneer Bass
     
  8. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    Good sniffing out (so to speak).

    Interesting they should make it with a P when they could have had a split P from another 2J and then some. I'm guessing they were avoiding what you guy's aren't :- ).

    If I was bet'n I'd say:

    vol/vol/tone

    Switch 1: single coil or dual
    Switch 2: parallel/series

    You'd definetly probably want single in parallel and dual in series.
     
  9. Here's a first step at a wiring diagram for what I think you're looking for. It shows one of our pups wired in what I see as a parallel double jazz and another diagram of what I see as a series double jazz. For a single J you'd just turn one volume down on the parallel mode.

    Next step is to throw a switch in there that allows you to select between these two.

    This is just my take on this and there are surely other (and better) ways to do this. For example if you're not committed to having two volume controls as in your original diagram, you could have just one and a switch for single/double J.

    http://www.trey-mitchell.com/images/whitedk57.gif
     
  10. Hey guys, I've started a web site about my bass project. Well actually I've added this project to the site I built for my last project. If you want to see it visit www.mybassproject.com

    Go to "Basses" and click the link for "Franken Bass". As I write this, the site is a little behind my actual progress, but I'll fix that in the next week.

    Enjoy!
     
  11. whitedk57

    whitedk57

    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    Topper,

    I have been experimenting with the wiring diagrams that you posted, and I like the sounds that they produce. I will post my final wiring diagram once I am ready to solder it all up.

    Since this is my first bass-building experience, I have encountered my fair share of problems.

    I started by buying the Double-J off of Ebay and Shaller P-pups from the same seller. I then bought a body that seemed to be an Ibanez style with a P-J configuration. I sanded the rest of the paint off and expanded the Jazz cavity to fit the double-J. I did fairly well without having a template. The only problem was that my router collar was not completely tight and the bit slipped down causing a deeper route than I wanted. So I added a wood-type filler to even out the bottom of the cavity. (Problem solved!)

    I then stained the body and starting to apply spray polyurethane to the body. After botching the application, I stripped it all down and had a friend help me apply poly with a brush. It came out nice (but it was not meant to be! - more later).

    I then bought a Mighty-Mite Jazz neck off of Ebay. It was about 1/16th of an inch wider than the pocket. With a some elbow grease, I was able to expand the pocket. But when I placed the neck in the pocket, it seemed that the neck was sitting too high. I went to the local music shop and measured the height differential between the necks and bodies of the basses there. So, I came home and decided to chisel out the pocket some. In hind-sight I should have used my router and trusted my steadiness. But, I finally got it where I wanted it.

    I then ordered a bridge off of Ebay as well. When I installed the bridge I realized that the strings were too high. Rrrrrrr! I had taken too much out of the pocket! :crying: Not only that, the body size was too short for the 34" scale jazz neck that I bought. So, the bridge currently sticks over the edge about a quarter of an inch. :crying: But during the installation of the bridge, I used masking tape to make my measurements for the bridge location. When I pulled off the tape, the polyurethane came with it! :help: Rrrrrr! So I had to re-strip the finish and start over. This time I researched and decided to use Tung Oil - much better!

    When I installed the Double-J, I realized that it was quite beefy and rather thick. So, I had to route out some more of the Double-J cavity. (Wasted that wood filler!) In the process, one of the screws that holds the plastic-like surface of the router onto the router body decided to come out during the process. So, I now have some pretty gouges in the surface.

    Well, I am in the process of shaping a shim in the pocket that will re-raise the height of the neck. I cannot tell you how many times I have installed and uninstalled the neck. Not to mention the fact that I have strung the strings many thousands of times.

    In the end - if the sound is good - I don't care how she looks! I am pretty sure that I won't get out of it what I put into it, so I guess I will keep it. (I guess I just assigned a sex to my bass - maybe because she has been so much trouble! Any suggestions on a name???).

    Well, this has been my sad story so far. I don't know if I will ever post pics. Maybe I will - I can be a poster boy for what not to do when building a bass. :bag:

    whitedk57
     
  12. Sounds like a real learning experience! I'm surprised the bridge ended up hanging over the edge. Either that body was from a short scale bass or the bridge you bought is really big.

    Neck pocket depth is a bit of a mystery to me. I've read a number of articles about it, and I can't really figure out how to apply them to my situation except by trial and error. My neck has a little fretboard overhang, so I'm routing my neck pocket using the overhang as a guide. If the strings end up too high, I'll take it to a local shop and have the neck angle adjusted by a pro.

    It sounds like other than the bridge hanging over a little, you'll have a pretty nice bass. You should count that as a great success.
     
  13. whitedk57

    whitedk57

    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    The bridge is a Schaller 463, so it is pretty big. I might replace it with a fender-type bridge(no frills, but smaller profile). But for now, I am just happy to experiment with the sound. I think I found a wiring diagram that might work. I'll post it later.

    All in all, I like what I am hearing - and that's the important part. :bassist:
     
  14. bassmonkeee

    bassmonkeee Supporting Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Decatur, GA
    Heh, it's funny that you mention the Bongo preamp. I've actually got a set of these Schaller quad pickups AND a Bongo preamp for a project I've currently got in the works. :bag:

    EDIT: Okay, so it was actually luknfur who mentioned the Bongo pre, but it's still funny. :D
     
  15. If you're thinking about changing bridges don't make any permanent changes to the neck pocket. The lowest saddle hight of the bridge makes a big difference in the neck pocket depth.
     
  16. whitedk57

    whitedk57

    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    So, I finished my wiring diagram... Schaller Wiring Diagram

    Topper, chew on it for a while and let me know what you think...
     
  17. whitedk57

    whitedk57

    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    IT'S ALIVE !

    I wired it up last night, and played with different settings. I like the variations in sound, except that the second switch(connected to the JJ) doesn't seem to change the sound very much. I might rewire it later, but for now I like it.

    I also noticed that when the volumes for the P-pup and JJ-pup were both turned all the way up, the sound diminished. But turning one volume down slightly caused the sound to increase again.
     
  18. I have to remind everyone that I'm no expert on guitar wiring, but it looks like there are some problems with the wiring of the double J in this diagram. Take a look at the third option on the diagram I posted for you earlier: http://www.trey-mitchell.com/images/whitedk57.gif

    If you only want the one volume, just remove one of the pots and connect the middle pole of the switch to the remaining volume pot.

    I'm pretty sure this will give you a set up that switches between dual coil series and dual coil parallel. I'm not sure what difference in sound you'll get, but from previous posts I thought that's what you were looking for.

    You would get a more dramatic change in sound if you set it up to switch between single coil and dual coil humbucking. If you're interested, I'll try to put something together.

    Also, it looks like the switch connected to the split P just reverses the signal flow. If you isolate this pup (by turning down the volume for the JJ) and flip the switch does it actually sound different? I would expect it to sound the same.

    I don't know about the issue of the volume dropping with both pups all the way up. Sounds like a phase problem, but with the way the double J is wired I wouldn't be surprised if you have some problems.

    Again, I have to caution you that I don't really know what I'm talking about. Maybe someone who does will weigh in.
     
  19. Ok, the changes needed to my previous diagram to make this switch between single coil and dual coil humbucking weren't dramatic. You can see it here:

    http://www.trey-mitchell.com/images/whitedk57-2.gif

    This should produce a pretty significant change in the sound when you throw the switch.
     

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