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Schaller Double-J Pickups

Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by whitedk57, May 5, 2005.

  1. whitedk57


    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC

    I think that the SS of the right side should connect to the SF of the left side, and the SS of the left side should go to ground.

    And, I don't think it's actually Parallel...

    With one switch setting, you have this.

    HOT --- NS/NF --- NS/NF --- GND

    With the other switch setting, you have this.(which I think is series)

    HOT --- NS/NF --- NS/NF --- SF/SS --- SS/SF --- GND

    I think it should be...

    HOT --- NS/NF --- NS/NF --- SF/SS --- SF/SS --- GND

    Anyway, I believe that the parallel is not happening in that circuit.

    As far as the switch on the split-p on my diagram is concerned, it does have an effect on the sound when the JJ is used. When the JJ is turned down, it does not have an effect. I had the extra switch, and I thought "what the heck". It switches the phase with respect to the JJ.

    My switch variations are

    Switch position #1

    HOT --- SF/SS --- NS/NF --- SF/SS --- GND

    Switch position #2

    HOT --- SF/SS --- NS/NF --- NS/NF --- SF/SS --- GND

    Here is a prettier representation of these wirings...

    Schaller basic wiring
  2. I may be reaching the limit of my expertise, because I'm having trouble following this.

    If you go back to your first diagram (which I think I understand) (http://www.duanewhite.com/images/SchallerWiring.jpg) and trace your signal path on the JJ with the switch in the up position you have current flowing through 3 of the coils.

    Also, I think when you connect the top north coil and top south coil this way, you're creating more of a split humbucker (like a split P). What you want to do is connect both north coils together in series so they function like one north polarity coil. Then the south coils are similarly connected together to function like one south polarity coil.

    Just my take on these pups.
  3. Doh! You were right about me having the SS/SF mixed up. I've fixed that.


    You are also correct that in this version there's no parallel action happening. The switch would swap the JJ between single coil and dual coil humbucking (series). I'm sure a parallel switch could be worked in.
  4. Techmonkey


    Sep 4, 2004
    Wales, UK
    Well I was planning on working on a similar thing with those pickups for my GCSE project but I didnt' want to risk anything so I went for a 5 string instead and some Kent Armstong soapbars.
    Have you got any sound samples showing the versatility of the pickups? Sounds like a real interesting project! I was going to do what Kramer did though and have one P-bass pickup and one double J.
  5. I don't have any sound samples yet, because my project is still rather incomplete. Whitedk57 may have some samples. His project is mostly complete. He's also doing a JJ with a split P. If you have wiring diagrams for those old Kramer basses, please post them. We'd love to know how they were wired.
  6. whitedk57


    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    I don't have any sound samples either. Quite frankly, I don't have any equipment to record the sound either. I wish I did. I wonder if I could use the microphone on my computer to record into some sound file...
  7. OK, I couldn't resist trying out my wiring diagram even though my body isn't done. The variety of sounds is pretty cool. Two of the configurations don't work though. Position 1 and position 4 in series mode don't work. I don't get any output. I haven't had time to figure out why yet. Here's the diagram:


    And if you want to see details of the project including pics of it mostly complete: http://www.mybassproject.com/
  8. Well after a few days of picking apart my wiring diagram and not finding anything wrong, then picking apart the wiring to make sure it matched the diagram I still couldn't figure out what was going on. I finally tracked it down by looking at all my connections. The terminals on that six way rotary switch are real close together and since my wiring was just temporary I hadn't taken as much care as I should have. So basically the problem was faulty wiring.

    I cleaned this up a little and everything seems to work great!

    I don't have a reliable way to know which coils are active to verify my scheme has worked, but if I tap the poles with something metalic I get a louder pop on the coils I think are active. For more on this see this forum: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189684

    I'll play the bass over the next couple of days and let you know what I think of the different configurations. :bassist:
  9. luknfur


    Jan 14, 2004

    you guys deserve a medal for persistance. My guess if you ever decided to climb Everest, you'd either make it or get killed in the process.

    Tapping is all the info you need to determine which coil is working. Because the coils are so close, you may get some referent pick up but you should have no problem distinguishing the two. A little experimentation with different "tappers" should yield one that's most difinitive.

    Checking all you're connections for continuity with a meter before running them can lead to early detection and minimize some grief. Also for test runs, installing pigtails, using wire nuts, and leaving the control bay cover off just to check out everything works as intended can save time and grief. With a million connections it gets considerably more hairy and is not quite as practical but it allows you to quickly swap and test wires where questions exist and try alternative wiring without having to mess with soldering. It will also tell you if you've got it right then you can solder for permanence and quiet operation.
  10. Well, if the tapping method is accurate, then my wiring is finally right. Woohoo!

    I spent some time playing yesterday and here's what I found about the different configs:
    1. Position 2 (P-J combo) and 3 (Jazz Bass) sound pretty similar
    2. Position 4 (Jazz + Humbucker) and 5 (P + Humbucker) also sound really similar
    3. Overall there are three or four really distinct sounds I get from the six way switch. Position 1 (split P), Position 3 (Jazz) and Position 6 (Bridge Humbucker) are my favorites and are all really distict sounds. Next on my favorites list would probably be 5 (P + Humbucker).
    4. I'm really glad I put the series/parallel switch in. For positions where both the neck and bridge pups are used (2-5) it boosts my volume and makes the tone a little darker when I switch to series mode.
    5. I was able to make the series/parallel switch have no effect in position 6 (bridge humbucker) but can't figure out how to do the same for position 1 (split P). So position 1 works in parallel but goes silent in series. I can live with that.

    If you want to review my wiring diagram (and don't want to read through the thread to find it again) here it is:


    Many thanks to TB and all the contributors to this forum. Your support and suggestions were really valuable.

    Here's my project with the pups installed. The body isn't as finished as it looks in this picture. If you want to follow the rest of the project visit http://www.mybassproject.com/franken.html


    It's good to know my wiring scheme works. Now I have to take the whole thing apart and get back to work on finishing the body, then do all the wiring again!
  11. luknfur


    Jan 14, 2004

    I assume the sounds comparisons were solo? Played to music there may or may not be more of a distincition/more apparent use for the different tones.
  12. Yeah, I was playing it solo. I also made sure I set the tone in the treble position and had everything on my amp set flat so I'd get the pure sound of the pickups.

    I think part of the reason those combinations sound so similar is that every setting on my bass is humbucking one way or the other. A Jazz bass is humbucking as long as the volume of both pickups is set the same (or close) but you can loose the humbucking by making one coil louder than the other. In my case I have one volume and every setting is humbucking. A blend knob might change that, but my wiring diagram is complicated enough already. I really like three of the settings (in both series and parallel mode) and a fourth one is pretty good too. That's six to eight distinct useable bass tones in one bass. I'm pretty happy with that.
  13. Well, you asked for sound samples so here they are. :bassist:

    I think you can hear the difference better on the slap samples. Position six (bridge humbucker) is really bright, but I recorded this with the tone all the way in the treble position so you could hear the pups true tone. One, three and six are my favorites, but they all sound pretty good.

    Position 1 Split-P finger style
    Position 2 P-J combo finger style
    Position 3 Jazz Bass finger style
    Position 4 Jazz Humbucker combo finger style
    Position 5 Split-P Humbucker combo finger style
    Position 6 Bridge Humbucker finger style

    Series/Parallel sample

    Position 1 Split-P slap
    Position 2 P-J combo slap
    Position 3 Jazz Bass slap
    Position 4 Jazz Humbucker combo slap
    Position 5 Split-P Humbucker combo slap
    Position 6 Bridge Humbucker slap
  14. whitedk57


    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC

    Those clips sound really cool. I wish I had equipment to do that. I am pretty much a bass newbie, so I couldn't make it sound that good anyway.

    Meanwhile, I have been experiencing humming in my bass. I plan to undo my wiring and start over. I think I have a grounding issue or something. It's really bumming me out! :crying:

  15. What are you trying to achieve and what constraints are we working with? Or in other terms, how many switches and pots are already pre-drilled in your bass body and what types of pup configurations are you interested in having? Let's start from there and maybe we can come up with a wiring diagram that works for you.
  16. whitedk57


    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    The wiring diagram I have works, it's just that there is a humming noise. The hum is there whenever the bass is plugged in but can become louder w/o any apparent cause. It stops when I touch the bridge or the strings.

    Here's a question for anybody... If I put shielding in the cavities but did not ground the shielding, can it cause noise problems itself?

    BTW Topper, I have three pots and two dpst switches to work with if you wanted to suggest an alternative wiring diagram.

  17. luknfur


    Jan 14, 2004

    just for clarification and to reduce perpetuation, these pups are not coil tapped pups. A coil tap is a second hot lead "tapped" into a single coil that effectively results in two different coil lengths within a single coil (literally splits the coil in two parts). Coil taps are designed into the pup during construction. The Schaller has 4 independent full length coils that can be isolated as desired due to the 8 leads - but are not tapped.

  18. Sorry, my bad. The switch will toggle between single coil and humbucking mode.
  19. whitedk57


    May 5, 2005
    Franklin, NC
    So, are you saying it is switching between Jazz and Humbucker?

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