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SCHERTLER DYN-B TRANSDUCER

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Nuno A., Apr 26, 2002.


  1. Nuno A.

    Nuno A. Velvet Strings Customer Service

    Jul 9, 2001
    SWITZERLAND
    Hello everybody....
    After years of spending money and time trying and buying lots of pickups, mikes,amps,etc, i found what i consider is by far the best doublebass amplification system....
    I just got the schertler DYN-B transducer , their pre-amp and the PUB 2/280 active loudspeaker.
    The sound??? Well its the sound of my bass....just louder...Amazing tone and volume for such a small speaker(8")
    I tryed it last week in a big venue playing a boogie-woogie, blues and jazz festival and i was amazed with the sound, at the end of the show i got so many compliments about the sound....lots of people including bass players were amazed how acoustic my sound was....last night again with a jazz trio(piano, bass and drums) on a medium size ultra packed bar and i got the same result...Just the sound of my bass only louder.To go into the p.a. system, the pre amp has a output which gives a flat signal to the p.a. or if you prefer you can try the output of the speaker...i used the pre amp output and the sound engineer said he never got such an easy job to amplify a double bass.
    I really recommend everybody to give it a try,i'm sure you'll be very happy with what you'll hear....
    Anyway for those who really need lots of volume, they have a sub-woofer bass extension,i tryed too..well, great for those who play with loud drummers or guitar players....I was never so happy with my sound before and the people at schertler are sooooo nice.....(when i was there i was hours trying equipment and making all kind of possible questions.)
    Give it a try when you can....I'm sure you'll have a great surprise.
    Have a great day.

    NUNO ALEXANDRE
     
  2. Monte

    Monte

    Jan 9, 2001
    New Albany, MS
    Glad you joined the Schertler "snob" club!;) It is an expensive solution, but as Adrian Cho and I have both discovered, I can't find anything that sounds better other than a good mic, and with this bleed is not a problem. I only wish I had bought it earlier.

    I don't own the Pub or the preamp, but I have pretty good luck either going in to the PA or the Acoustic Image Contra. Adrian has the Coda.

    I'm much happier with mine after starting to use a ART Studio Tube MP preamp. Being able to control how much signal from the transducer goes into the amp really cleans up the sound and lives it clearer at higher volumes without getting boomy.

    Monte
     
  3. Monte

    Monte

    Jan 9, 2001
    New Albany, MS
    Yeah, that has always puzzled me since he got everything to try out. His bass must have had a real disagreement with that. Other than Don (who tried his before me), 9 people that I recommended this to have tried it and liked it, including my teacher Don Munday who hates all things electronic.....

    Like Ed sys, YMMV. I was real skeptical before my trial. I actually didn't have success with this rig for awhile. I liked it from the first, but it took me over a month to get where I felt comfortable using it in any situation I encountered. It is VERY hot, and I had problems going into some cheaper PA's with no headroom. To get anywhere near a usable volume, the sound would cease to sound like a mic and would sound like a Fishman with a head cold. Talking to a friend of mine who runs a studio helped by giving me some suggestions. Now I've been able to use it on a big outdoor stage, small clubs, unfamiliar PA's, etc. all the while knowing that I'm going to get the sound of my bass.

    Believe me, if I had a dollar for every musician who thinks I play only acoustically (which I do in small quiet places), I coulda paid for this thing by now.:D It actually COST me one gig when a saxaphone player who is notorious for playing very loudly didn't hire me to sub after coming down to Maker's to hear me. As he told the drummer (who told me), I had a nice sound, but he needed some one who played amplified to have enough volume. When he heard me and saw no amp on the stage, he assumed I was acoustic. I play pretty loud, but the large crowds at Maker's make that impractical.

    Monte
     
  4. AMJBASS

    AMJBASS Supporting Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    Ontario, Canada
    I used to have the Schertler Dyn-B, but I ended up selling it displeased with the sound. I found that it had too much mid-range in the sound. Now I realize that it was the lack of a full-range system that was the cause of this. I wish I had the unit back. I am having a fun time trying to get my Realist to sound as articulate as the Schertler. With the rig I am assembling now, it would be perfect. Don't know If I can get enough $$ together though!

    Hey Adrian...hows the bass doin? I miss playing it. Great instrument! (Adrian Cho bought my previous Upright). I wouldn't trade the one I've got now for anything though!:D Well...... ;)
     
  5. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    Hi Adrian

    The bass is doing great. I put Olivs (G and D) and Eudoxas (A and E) on the bass last week (took the Animas off). Sound is different to the Animas - slightly better and worse in some ways but still with that great gut sound that I love.

    Back to the Dyn-B. I have it on my bass all the time and I know I can use it in pretty much any situation and get a sound I am happy with it. And it's so user-friendly - not fiddly like many other pickups, and the tone is easily adjusted by positioning the transducer.

    It's still not as good as a mic (I have both an AKG C4000B and an AT4047/SV that I use on stands) but it's close and works very well with the Coda/Contra.

    The Schertler speaker systems are a lot more than I'd be willing to spend and much more than I'd be willing to cart around, but it would be interesting to hear my bass with the Dyn-B through their recommended setup.

    Adrian
     
  6. lin fung

    lin fung Supporting Member

    Oct 9, 2002
    Taipei, Taiwan
    How does the schertler stat B bridge pickup sound? I am a first-time pickup/mic buyer and want to get something with very accurate acoustic sound that can also handle some serious volume. I had the combination of schertler stat-B and AMT mic recommended to me. However, it's a whole lot of money.
    How do the tone of the two schertler pickups compare? Do they just beat the pants off of the K&K gear that I've seen praised on this board?

    By the way, how does the AMT mic compare to the golden trinity?
     
  7. LowNote

    LowNote Supporting Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Lin Fung,

    I have a Schertler Stat-B installed on my Hachez carved bass. I run it through the little phantom power box they provide directly into a Contra for most of my gigs. If I need more volume and there is no or an inadequate PA, then I run it into a Walter Woods Ultra that is my main BG amp and into a Bergantino HT112 speaker or an Acme B-1, or both. My Stat-B replaced a Realist that I could never get to work right with my bass and the Contra. I found the Realist to be way too muddy with the only way to make it work being to turn the bass and mid tone controls almost all the way off. I've found the output of the Schertler run into a Contra with the tone controls generally set flat to be just like the acoustic tone of my bass only louder. I have an Underwood on my backup ply bass, and the difference in tone between the two pickups is amazing. The Schertler just sounds natural as hell, and it also works very well for arco playing. I am very happy with mine as is and feel no need to run a separate mic. Before the Realist, and on an older German flatback carved bass, I used the Fishman, Crown Condenser, RavenLab PMB-1 combination run into the effects return jack of a GK MB150. Although I received tons of compliments on how natural that setup sounded, it doesn't begin to compare to the Schertler. My ONLY beef about the Stat-B is that it has to be fitted to the specific bridge and is not (easily or readily) transferable to another axe.

    Erik Hansen
    Los Angeles
     
  8. Monte

    Monte

    Jan 9, 2001
    New Albany, MS
    Well, I had the Stat-B for awhile and I think that next to the Dyn-B it is the closest thing out there to a mic. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that if you got one, there would be no need to mix it with a mic at all. It is pretty close to the Dyn-B, but I found that the Stat will compensate for lack of power on the E string, while the Dyn does just you give it.

    Well, I would not want to criticize any one else's gear. One bassist's solution might not be another's cup of tea. As noted before, Don Higdon had horrible luck with the Schertler and likes K & K. I used the K & K Bass Max and Golden Trinity for awhile and still recommend the Bass Max to bassists who want a relatively cheap good sounding pickup. I found it wasn't quite as full range as either of the Schertlers, but it was pretty darn good. In fact, I kept my Bass Max and still use it for playing with a big band.

    Monte
     
  9. atunbridge

    atunbridge

    Apr 23, 2002
    Devon UK
    Have any of you Stat-B users found the preamp to be noisy? I was all set to try one before I read this quote on another thread.
     
  10. LowNote

    LowNote Supporting Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    The pre-amp that came with my Stat-B (a simple volume control knob in a small box with a single 9-volt battery) is completely quiet. Adds no sound whatsover.
     
  11. I think Charlie Haden uses one of those, and his sound is about as great as I can anyone could ever hope for. I'm waiting until I can afford the $500 or so for one of those. Until then, I just have to use whatever microphone that the sound technicians have for me. Most of them don't have an old AKG 3000 laying around. I wish I didn't have to buy food, pay rent and stuff, then I could have the best gear all the time.
     
  12. Same with me. Dead Quiet!
     
  13. I had whichever the Schertler bridge pickup is. It sounded awful on my bass, so I sent it back. Put a Wilson pickup on, sounded great. Having said that, tried someone elses bass with the same type of Schertler, sounded a bit electric, but great with the big band he was playing with. As always, depends on the bass. I must add that I had no problem with getting a refund form Schertler, who were always helpful even when I didn't want the pickup.
     
  14. poalf

    poalf

    Feb 27, 2003
    Phoenix, Az
    I've been thinking seriously about replacing my Realist with the Dyn-B. I'm currently going through the Fishman Pro EQ Platinum into the effects return on a Clarus and then into Raezers Edge Bass 10. This is used primarily as a stage monitor and I use the DI to feed the house (typically but not exclusively a small, sometimes noisy microbrew). Will I have to replace my whole rig and get their speakers too (!!$$!!!) to make the switch worthwhile or can I just get a lo to hi Z transformer and plug into my preamp (I really like the compressor on the Fishman)? Or is this as good as it gets? Any hints?
     
  15. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    I use my Dyn-B with a Coda which is not that far off what you propose. I hate the inline impedance transformers and haven't had good experiences with them. You might benefit from the Schertler preamp (Pre-A II) but whilst I haven't use the Schertler PA, it sounds good with my Coda. I'm now using the AMT mic primarily with a bit of Dyn-B mixed in and find the mic nicer than the Dyn-B but still with no feedback problems.

    Adrian
     
  16. poalf

    poalf

    Feb 27, 2003
    Phoenix, Az
    I tried the AMT and shut it down half-way through the first gig.. could not get enough gain/presence without the feedback. it may be the way I had it set, but in a noisy environment it just wouldn't cut through.

    What probelms do you have with the transformer?
     
  17. Monte

    Monte

    Jan 9, 2001
    New Albany, MS
    Unlike Adrian, I haven't had too many problems with the inline transformers. I played just last night with the Dyn-B and my Contra, and it sounded great, which I witnessed when another bassist sat in. I do use the Schertler Pre-AII, and it helps in dialing out this one annoying freq. that can make it honky in the middle and upper register. It's possible that it could do just fine using the Fishman EQ for this purpose.

    I haven't ever tried to use the Dyn-B in combination with a mic. Occasionally I will send the Dyn-B to the Contra and a mic to the house PA, but typically I go with one or the other, or nothing at all.

    I will have an opportunity to tell you what I think of the Schertler Pub speaker later. Curiousity got the better of me, so I picked up a used one that should be here today. I've always wondered how an effecient powered speaker would sound that could take an XLR input. The Mackie one I tried sounded decent, but is not as effecient and does not have as wide of a frequency response.

    Interestingly enough, a theory I've had about the effectiveness of the Dyn-B was borne out. The situations that have given me the most difficulty were those with a small underpowered PA.

    This weekend I played at Maker's, a place I have played at a bunch and always had trouble getting enough volume and sounding clean. As usual, it was packed beyond capacity and the audience noise was loud. They just replaced the PA amp with a bigger one, keeping the same speakers. Using the Pre-AII, I sent a dry signal to the Contra as a monitor (the speakers are way above my head on the wall and ceiling) and the wet signal to a PA
    channel, using the line input and an impedance matching plug.

    Plenty of clean volume, and I don't think I've ever sounded better there or heard myself easier. One of the bartenders commented that was the best mix he had heard out of us, and also said it was one of the first times he had really heard the bass clearly.

    As a comparison to the old PA amp, we used to keep the master at about 80%, and I would have to turn my channel up to about 50% to get enough volume. On this PA, the master is at 50% and my channel about 30%.

    I thought about using a mic there, but the way our drummer sets up, its a tight fit for the bass.

    In conclusion, I think the Dyn-B sounds best when it has enough clean power. The only situations that give me trouble are the tiny PA's.

    Monte
     
  18. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    My guess is that if you need a lot of volume then the AMT will not suit your purposes. My sound and setup are pretty loud as it is. Last week someone else got up and played my bass with my band and although it sounded good out front, everyone in the band said they couldn't hear the bass at all when this guy played. He simply wasn't using to digging in on the gut strings and was producing very little acoustic sound. Usually my band doesn't use a PA, we have the vocalist and the bass going into the Coda, the guitar uses his amp and the sax and drums aren't wired at all. And that's it. No PA. When we've used PAs at various venues before, we hated the sound and it was unnecessarily loud. Because I both the Schertler preamp and the AMT "super" preamp have split outputs, I can always feed both to the house as well as to my amp if need be.

    Now that I have discovered the AMT, which gives me a sound almost as good as a stand-mounted mic without anywhere near the amount of hassles, I opt for it every time but it's good to know I have the Dyn-B if I need more output or if I'm in a situation where using the mic just doesn't make sense.

    I've found that certain inline transformers such as the Audio-Technica CP8201 will produce a hum when plugged into my Coda, unless the transformer is rotated in the plug to a certain position. Also, I find the sound harsh with the Dyn-B.

    Adrian
     
  19. poalf

    poalf

    Feb 27, 2003
    Phoenix, Az
    I was about to comment how the tone I got with AMT wasn't focused enough to cut through in noisy, live performances, even if I could've gotten it loud enough. Then I remembered the bass I had at the time wouldn't cut through or sound good at acoustic rehearsals either. I got a new bass with much clearer and focused tone and it made everything work much better. DUH!!! Accurate reproduction can be a double-edged sword.

    I had the AMT about 1.5" off the belly of the bass, about 4-6 " below the bridge (f holes were way too boomy). Where do you have yours? Where do you mount the Dyn-B?

    And for Monte, do you consider the Clarus amp to have "enough clean power? for the Dyn-B" Where do you locate the Dyn-B on your bass
     
  20. Adrian Cho

    Adrian Cho Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ottawa, Canada
    I have my Dyn-B mounted right under the bridge in the middle - between both feet. I have experimented with quite a few places and that's what works best for me. I have the AMT mic mounted to the lower bout of the bass on the left hand side and then I have the gooseneck positioned so that the capsule is about perhaps 1.5 - 2" below the bridge and about 3" from the belly of the bass.

    The f holes are way too boomy. Sure you can get lots of gain there but the sound is totally unrealistic. Marty Paglione - designer of the mic told me that the photo in the ads that show it over the f-hole were done by some marketing folks on a day when he wasn't around and that's not where most people put the mic.

    Originally I have figured I would put the AMT capsule closer to the fingerboard to get some of the "finger noise" but for one thing the mic is pretty directional so it doesn't pick it up that well and secondly the cable has a long way to hang down. Also at some stage I figure I might go for the tailpiece mounting option (to save setup time for one thing - since I could have the mic on the bass all the time even when the bass is in the bag) and that's only viable if the capsule is located somewhere below the bridge otherwise the gooseneck needs to be way too long.

    I thought I was really happy with the Dyn-B and I am but the AMT mic is definitely better for me but it's great to know I can blend in some Dyn-B when I want to or if I have to I can use the Dyn-B alone.

    Adrian