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Schro' 1210R plus a sub as a “super-rig”

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by morebass!, Aug 13, 2007.

  1. morebass!

    morebass! I'm all ears Supporting Member

    May 31, 2002
    Madison WI
    Or "Ampquest Part XXXXVVII"

    In a previous thread I reviewed my then-new Schroeder 1210R. I concluded that it sounded great but just didn’t have the volume or low-end that I needed for playing with the band that I play 95% of my gigs with these days. We do mostly 70's blues, funk, soul, and rock. In that same thread I reviewed my other then-new cab, a Mesa Diesel 2x15. I liked the Mesa but was worried about the power handling (400 watts). Since then I’ve been using the Mesa almost exclusively for gigs and it does very well but is heavy, and is not a super-versatile cab being mostly mid-focused without a great modern slap sound.

    So, this weekend I put a JBL 18” (M-series) sub under the 1210 at a medium-small club without PA support. The sub is a 600-Watt 4-ohm box that’s designed to be used with a crossover so I used my Yamaha PB-1 preamp and used the low-pass filter for the sub and sent a full-range signal to the 1210. Each cabinet was powered by one channel of my Crest V900 power amp (450 watts per channel). I used my Fender Deluxe (active) MIA Jazz Bass (IV), and a Trace Elliot dual compressor before the PB-1. The compressor was set to compress only the lows at about 40% of what the TE is capable of (pretty mild compression). I set the PB-1 at treble=2, mid=10, bass=3 (a little bassier than "flat") to start with and left the bass preamp flat. I set the low-pass filter on the sub to 100 hz to start. The levels on the power amp were not balanced with the channels set equal so I backed off the channel with the 1210 about 10db to get equal levels at the power amp and cranked up the volume on the PB-1 until both channels were just below clipping.

    I was not impressed with the volume. I had to push the power amp to where it was in the red on peaks to get an acceptable volume. This surprised me because I thought that the Schroeder was a pretty loud cabinet and really just needed more low-end. But more power would have been a good thing. A better test would have been to use my 1001-2 for the Schroeder and my Crest for the sub (oh yeah!). But that's trucking a lot of stuff around.

    The tone was good. Very flexible with all the lows, mids, and highs I could want and it still retained that characteristic 1210 mid-cut. When I turned up the bass on the PB-1 it delievered the lows but didn't really have the definition I like. And my power amp was in the red. Since I was lacking in volume I decided to send more low-mids to the sub. I moved the low-pass frequency up to about 200 (the dial on the PB-1 doesn’t give exact frequencies). This made a world of difference in volume and tone. Now I had a bigger ballsier tone – much more like my 2x15 but without the rough edge. So tonally this setup is quite versatile. It would take at least another night of tweaking to see what it’s really capable of.

    One of my reasons for doing this is that my Mesa Diesel 2x15 is a pain to move. But the 2-cab alternative turned out to be more cumbersome. Although the cabs are easier to move (the sub is only about 60 lbs) there are two of them. And the pre/power rack is about 60 pounds compared to maybe 25 for the GK 1001-II that I use with the Mesa. Plus, the pre/power is more complicated to hook up and tweak with the bi-amping and all.

    So I’m still searching for that perfect set up. Maybe a couple of 1x15s (or saw my 2x15 in half?:meh: ). I suppose I could try to build some boxes for the EV15Ls I have in the Mesa. Not that I’m in a big hurry but I’d rather not mess up my back (again) and I’d like something with a high-frequency driver of some sort. Maybe the 2 Bag End 15D stack might do it but I wonder about the low end and the volume. We are pretty loud. The Mesa 2x15 keeps up, but just barely and sometimes I wish I had more lows and highs for the slap stuff.

    Of course the NV215 seems pretty attractive too from what I read on here. But it doesn’t seem all that much more portable than my Mesa. Anyway, I’m really starting to ramble ...
  2. Masher88

    Masher88 Believe in absurdities and you commit atrocities

    May 7, 2005
    Cleveland, OH
    You obviously need the 210212...or the 310212 (like me!!!)
    Unbelievably loud!!!!
  3. Zildjian106


    Apr 8, 2007
    If the 1210 does not have the volume you need go with a larger box and/or more speakers. The larger Schroeder’s have more low end as well.

    I would take a look at the 410 210212 or maybe a traditional cab with a larger box for more low end.
  4. davelowell2

    davelowell2 Uhh... FaFaFooey is BaBaBooey... Supporting Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    NYC via StL
    I used to have a Mesa 2x15 and now have a Berg NV cab. The Berg is way more portable, IMO.
  5. morebass!

    morebass! I'm all ears Supporting Member

    May 31, 2002
    Madison WI
    Davelowell2 - Regarding the portability,a lot of posts rave about the tilt-back wheelie dealie of the NV but I don't think that really helps me much. I use a hand cart. The bottom line is weight. I haven't weighed the Mesa but I'm guessing it's around 120-130 lbs, which is 20-30 more than the NV215. So that's a plus for the NV. How does the sound compare?
  6. I have a crest V900.

    I'd call it 'ok'... its not too hard to shut it down with deep synth patches or hip hop kicks, and headroom is not that great. My impression its not designed for heavy duty work. My yorkville AP3400 blows it out of the water. Gets significantly louder and hardly breaks a sweat on heavy dub sounds.
  7. morebass!

    morebass! I'm all ears Supporting Member

    May 31, 2002
    Madison WI
    Yeah the V900 is no CA9. Bridged into 4 ohms it puts out 1100 watts and can get loud but for the weight it's not really comparable to more modern amps. I've been meaning to power the Mesa 2x15 with it. That cab is very efficient so it might do well on one channel of the Crest. Then I could use the other channel for the sub in the PAand the GK 1001RB2 for the 1210. That ought to be loud enough.

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