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Schro TOO Thick?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by CLJMB, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. CLJMB

    CLJMB Supporting Member

    Jan 4, 2005
    North Alabama
    I'm currently playing a Roscoe LG3005 with Barts and an SR5 though a AI Focus II into a Schro 1210. I use the SR5 in a loud rock band and the Roscoe in a quieter gig with a piano player. The SR5 sounds fine with this rig in the rock band, but the Roscoe/Schro combination is just too thick in the low mids for the quieter piano setting. Any recommendations on small portable cabs to use with the Roscoe/AI Focus on the piano gigs that will provide a more neutral sound?
  2. BigMikeW

    BigMikeW Banned

    May 25, 2005
    Nashville, TN.
    Banned by TB Administration for refusal to account for funds

    Berg HT112, Eden D12XLT, Agiie GS112
  3. Kael


    Dec 26, 2004
    Oklahoma City
    EA cabs, anything but the Whizzy should be pretty neutral.

    PS: AI heads have a pretty limited EQ section, have you thought about adding an external peice to give you more EQ control to help thin out your tone? Might be cheaper.
  4. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    DFW, Texas
    Another suggestion for getting where you want your sound to be with minimal changes:
    Try the SR5 in the quieter gig setting with the PUP selector set to single/phantom coil (middle position).
    EQ at the SR5 to taste.

    To me the Roscoes have a very thick/meaty tone to them in the low end.
    The AI is fairly warm as well.

    I would guess the Roscoe would mate well with something like a ThunderFunk amp and a good 1x10 or 2x10 for small gigs (3x10 or 4x10 for larger ones).
  5. I find my schroeder combined with the Fender 300 Pro to be very full partly because bothe the cab and head are voiced towards that very thick low mid punch. I find I am easily able to EQ this out with the graphic eq and get a bit more cut by adding a touch at 500hz, which makes my warwick growl a bit more as well...

    Note: that this low mid frequency is also what makes the schroeder seem so loud in the mix, so by cutting it with the eq, you may need to turn up a bit to compensate in the mix
  6. I also have used a Focus into a Schroeder1210, and was not that impressed. My feeling is, given the inherent mid voicing of the Roscoe and the Schroeder, and the limited tone controls on the Focus, you have somewhat of a mismatch.

    However.... when I play quiet jazz type gigs, it's all about the mids IMO, and that rig sounds like it has mids forever. Have you tried using the low pass (or hi pass or whatever it is) filter at its lowest setting... that should help.

    If nothing works, I find the Focus/EpiUL matchup very nice sounding... better than the Focus/Berg matchup for EB IMO.
  7. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    Too thick is something I don't find Schroeders to be.
    They do not, in my opinion, have the inherent thick low oend of say an eden exlt series-although I find you can eq in that kind of sound if that's what you like.
    I think you're fighting something other than the cab here, and,
    The answer is "Thunderfunk."
    The amp you're using has kinda limited EQ. The TF has huuuuge eq. If you think TFB might not be your flavor, Eden WT550 or wt800B both have nearly the same eq section, though "only" 3 semi parametric sections.
  8. uglybassplayer


    Aug 24, 2001
    New Jersey
    +1 I'd look towards a para EQ (like a Presonus EQ3B or D-Tar Equinox).

    - Ugly.
  9. It would be easier to understand if you substitute a note value for "low mids".

    For example, if it is quite thick at middle E (82 Hz) but not at low A and lower, this is very informative.

    If you listen for it, you can hear the hot spot in the typical bass cab. For the D410-XLT, this is in the 80 to 120 Hz range, or middle E to B range. The 2nd harmonic of low E to B (41 to 60 Hz) will also excite this range, depending on how strong your 2nd harmonic is compared to the fundamental on your bass.

    This is the typical range where a too-big driver in a too-small cabinet produces a fat hump in the response. When combined with a bass that produces a stronger 2nd harmonic, this will exaggerate the hump range out of proportion with the rest.
  10. I'm really hearing the 1210 pump out a lower mid sort of thing (maybe 200 or 250 hz.), but that's a pure guess. I again like that sound for small group playing, especially with a piano player, where non-boomy, tight low end is key IMO. It also allows that cab to really punch through a mix in a loud live situation, as you already know:) There is a distinct drop-off of the very low end, but that happens in virtually all small cabs that I've ever owned... except the Acme, and I didn't find that a positive.

    As others have mentioned, from my experience with the 1210, the Focus front end (not the power section) is probably the problem IMO..... I also as stated above, find the Focus gets quite pillowy and non-distinct at low volumes with the 1210 (I find the same thing with my BergHT210S). Additional EQ or a different head will fix the issue IMO.
  11. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
  12. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    I use the EA CxL-112 with my Focus for jazz with piano, preferring it strongly to my 1210, but that's with EUB. Recently I built my own preamp using the standard Fender tone stack topology, and the inherent low mid cut flattens the 1210 out a lot when you want that. You might want to try something like the POD, using a Fender model. Try going into the effects return, and bypass the Focus front end completely. I haven't actually heard the POD though, FWIW. I do know from experience that the Alembic F1X works well in this regard though.

    The other thing that helped a bit is a Gramma pad under the 1210. I play a room with a very boomy stage nearly every week, and the Gramma definitely improved things for me.
  13. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine

    Ahhhh, yeah, there's another thought. Decoupling the cab from the floor. Lots of the time I play my 1210 "on end." In other words, set it on the floor so it's tall instead of wide. This really helps with my Double bass.

    It also makes fit better on a small stage;)
  14. Kael


    Dec 26, 2004
    Oklahoma City
    Actually this little sucker is pretty decent as an outboard EQ/DI/preamp in a pinch. The low cut on it is extremely effective and will kill boom quicker than snot. The 5 band graphic is pretty well voiced, and the compressor is surprisingly decent. Not the greatest as a stand alone preamp for slab, but I have used far worse that cost more and were a heck'uva lot bulkier.

    PS: If I remember correctly the focus can provide phantom power which will power the Fishman Pro Plat.
  15. el_Kabong


    Jul 11, 2005
    If you decide eq is the way to go I've found the boss eq20 pedal very useful. It's quiet and effective. The abilty to store presets and just footswitch them in is pretty handy.
  16. Slink


    Dec 27, 2005
    All right Chef. A light just went on in my head. Decoupling -- what a concept. I play a boomy room once a month with my 1212R standing on end, and its still hard to hear in there. Last time I played there they asked me to turn down my bass. Next time I play there I'll set my Eden CXC 2x10 with wheels mounted under it, under my 1212R . That should eliminate a lot of boominess.
  17. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    Apparently those Gramma pads work real well for that, but I've not tried one. Seems like a lot of work to carry a second cab for that purpose. Maybe bring a couple chunks of 2x4 or something easier?
  18. synaesthesia


    Apr 13, 2004
    I don't use a Focus but I use an early Clarus, the tone controls on these do not differ greatly I gather. With an acoustic piano in a trio or quartet setting I use the Clarus with flat EQ most of the time, and I use a GK MBX112 modified with a 3.5KHZ crossover and a Dayton tweeter. the tweeter's magnet allows it to stick on the cab.


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