Schroeder 1212 Cab & Vertical Cab Alignment

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by mrjim123, Jun 30, 2008.

  1. mrjim123

    mrjim123 Supporting Member

    May 17, 2008
    I'm curious about the somewhat odd placement of the two 12" drivers in this cab - one is in front and faces forward and the other is behind and projects at an angle.

    Is there an advantage or disadvantage to this configuration w/r to sound? Are there any destructive interference issues relating to sound arriving at the ear slightly delayed from the back speaker w/r to the front speaker? Are the speakers configured this way for space a savings alone?
  2. emblymouse

    emblymouse exempt Supporting Member

    Jan 22, 2006
    Thanks for asking- I am trying a 1212L right now and I assumed it was a space saving measure. But this cab does sound distinctly different from any other 212 I've tried (in a good way). Who's got the technical skinny?
  3. Eminor3rd

    Eminor3rd BLAAAAARRGGHH!! Supporting Member

    Feb 10, 2008
    A salesman told me that the speaker angle mixed with the rear porting was to create a "tight" sounding low end.
  4. Mystic Michael

    Mystic Michael Hip No Ties

    Apr 1, 2004
    New York, NY
    I can't claim to have the technical skinny, but I seriously doubt it's for space savings alone. Most likely the cab has been engineered specifically in this way in order to realize a performance objective - such as reinforcing the low end, for example.

    Remember, bass is inherently omnidirectional - meaning that the drivers don't necessarily have to all be firing the same direction in order for the cab to function as it should... :meh:

  5. John Le Guyader

    John Le Guyader Supporting Member

    Jun 6, 2006
    DC Metro
    Schroeder 1212s have rear porting??? I have two 1212Ls, one bought in Nov. the other in rear ports...
  6. jeremyr


    Sep 4, 2006
    Maywood, IL
    the port is on the angled speaker at the bottom right corner. I'm not sure if that is technically a "Rear port" though.

    BTW I love the way my 1210R soundss:hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper:
  7. John Le Guyader

    John Le Guyader Supporting Member

    Jun 6, 2006
    DC Metro
    And not to highjack the thread, but it would also be interesting to hear what is the best way to stack a pair of Schroeder 1212s
  8. emblymouse

    emblymouse exempt Supporting Member

    Jan 22, 2006
    Following that logic leads me the opposite way-it would allow the bass waves stretch out so to speak with the extra distance, like the old folded horn design. So maybe it adds a fuller low end?
    I can't believe no one has already done this.
  9. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The midrange output of the angled driver is attenuated, as those shorter wavelength frequencies don't go around corners, while the longer wavelength bass frequencies are unaffected. This 'tilts' the overall response, making it subjectively seem to have more lows, although what you're really hearing is less mids. Stacking you'd place them in a normal configuration, the exposed woofers vertically aligned. Singly you might find the 2x versions to work better on-end, the angled section on the floor, placing the exposed driver closer to the ears.
  10. Dragonlord

    Dragonlord Rocks Around The Glocks

    Aug 30, 2000
    Greece, Europe
    Maybe, however the small cab volume makes for less (or "tighter") low end.
  11. Crockettnj


    Sep 2, 2005
    North NJ
    ... and would the use of a VERY small box relative to optimum for the 2 drivers used result in a BIG midbass hump followed by a steep drop off below that?
  12. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Tech Soundsystems did it well before Jorg did. Jorg's thrown plenty of work into refining it though. It actually reinforces midrange more than the lowest frequencies. It takes a much longer horn section to achieve that.
  13. Gintaras


    Dec 11, 2004
    Kent Island, Md.
    I have a 1010R and a previous owner of a 2x12 Tech Soundsystems (made a bad move selling it:crying:)

    My 1010r sounds very midrangey to me. Rip out your eyeballs!! I love the sound but added a DR Bass 112F to fill out the bottom and soften the tone. I have not had a chance to play this rig live but imagine it will cut through like a knife. I play it on end with the speaker that is visible on the bottom. Plan to experiment with it and turn it 180 degrees.
  14. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    I own a 1212R and I believe the purpose of the angled 12 is to 1. give it a low-mid emphasis 2. squeeze 2 12s into a small box making it sound quite loud, aggressive and very efficient. Its certainly not the smoothest cab in the world but if you need portable, lots of volume and the ability to cut thru a dense mix the schroeder 1212R would be an excellent choice.

    I'd also like to add that in my experience, vertical vs horizontal cab placement makes a big difference in terms of what level of low-end this cab puts out. If you lay it horizontal, which seems like thats what it was designed for given the location of the name badge, you'll get a noticeable increase in low-end.
  15. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Alas, physics dictates that can't happen. Again the lows aren't any stronger, they just seem that way because with the drivers down lower you can't hear the mids as well. It's all a matter of where you are in relation to the cab. Try the same thing standing 20 feet or more away from the cab, so that in either position you're on-axis with the cab, and it will sound the same both ways.
  16. The Diaper Geni

    The Diaper Geni Submissive. And loving it. Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2005
    Central Ohio

    I've no technical knowledge. But my gigging experience has taught me to tilt my cab back at an angle (if the cab is on the floor). Seems that even a slight angle will make a BIG difference in tone. The difference being what Bill just described.

    Elevating and tilting back is even better. Or worse. Depending on personal taste.
  17. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    Ya, Bill turned me onto tilting it back. It gives a more representative sound than being flat on the floor.
  18. The Diaper Geni

    The Diaper Geni Submissive. And loving it. Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2005
    Central Ohio
    Good way of putting it: "Representative sound".

    Not sure if this is the same boat or not, but getting the cab off the floor seems to get one closer to a more representative sound. (Or RS. Because typing "representative sound" is a really, really big drag.)
  19. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Huh. Well, I tried tilting the cab back for quite awhile. When I laid it back flat, I noticed an increase in "better sound" meaning more 'meaty'.

    I have no doubt that Bill F. knows alot more about this than I do, but I remember there being a difference IME. I was playing a gig once in a large-ish club: wood stage, wood walls, wood everywhere. First I tried stacking it vertically like I usually do (because vertical is easier to hear on the small stages I usually play), then I tried laying it horizontal the 'perceived' low-end significantly increased. I wasnt able to check if the tone was the same standing 10 feet infront of it vs being in the audience, but from where I was standing it sounded better horizontal. IME, YMMV etc.
  20. ErnieD


    Nov 25, 2004
    Yep, twice I stacked my 2 GB Neox 212T's at gigs. It was just too "in my ear" for me. I prefer laying them both horizontally for the "percieved" lower end I get.