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Schroeder 1212 versus two mini 12s?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by TimBosby, Jan 24, 2006.


  1. TimBosby

    TimBosby Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    Omaha, NE, USA
    As many of you know, I play an Eden WT 800 (not the B version.) Right now I am using a Schroeder 1212 in bridged mono. I have heard from several other players that you get more "presence" and can hear yourself better with two cabs versus one. I found a good deal on a mini 12. I wonder if I got it, plus another mini 12 (one with and one without tweeter...hence a mini 12 stack, one on each side of the amp) would I be able to hear myself a bit better? Right now I can "feel" myself but sometimes the articulation of the notes, especially the high notes gets lost behind our really loud drummer/guitar player.
     
  2. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    Doubtful. To me the issue with a Schroeder is more that it is way down on the floor. You really have to get way away from those cab's to hear them.
     
  3. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The reason you can hear yourself better with two cabs is that the upper one is closer to your ears. Accomplish the same thing by tilting your present cab back.
     
  4. how close are you standing to your cab when you gig/practice?
    i play a 1212 and the only reason i would think you couldnt hear yourself with that rig would be either EQ or standing almost ontop of it.

    -todd
     
  5. or lay it on it's side so the angled driver faces upward.
     
  6. TimBosby

    TimBosby Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    Omaha, NE, USA
    Actually I keep it on a crate for live shows but I've found sometimes having it directly on a hard wood/tile or "hard" (aka nasty dirty) carpet floor gives you way more presence. Maybe not in terms of hearing the notes but definitely in terms of feeling the notes resonate. That is an interest point about the angled speaker though.

    Usually I can hear or at least feel myself (that sounds bad) on live stage. Whether or not I get a good mix is another story. At home we have a reasonably thick carpet on our basement floor. The basement is "finished" and I have the most trouble cutting through the mix during practice. The space is relatively small...about 350 sq feet. I stand about 6 or 8 feet from my cab. My guitar player told me it was too far away. I told him he was nuts and it was still too close since bass frequencies take so long to develop. But he doesn't know jack...he's a guitar player. Heh. Anyway at home I have to rest it on a milk crate to get it elevated and so the carpet doesn't absorb the frequencies. I will try moving it back to the far wall of the basement....man our neighbors must hate us....no complaints yet though and we've been practicing here for a couple months.
     
  7. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    That won't do as much good as tilting the box as the angled driver's 'compartment' acts as a low-pass filter, so it doesn't project the mids as well as the forward facing driver does.
     
  8. unity bass

    unity bass

    Dec 15, 2003
    Modesto, Ca.
    My guess, YMMV, is that the problem is high volume in a small space. At least, that's something I've gone through. Your situation may be different. Using earplugs and pointing the speakers directly at my face were two things that helped but utimately, our practice volume has come down. This has made our practice time so much better.
    At any rate, I don't think splitting your cab into separates will do you any good. Get separates if you're looking for versatility. If you need volume, add speakers.

    Chad
     
  9. dave_bass5

    dave_bass5

    May 28, 2004
    London, UK.
    Guys, can i jump in here and ask about putting cabs on crates or chairs etc.
    as Tim said he feels more of his sound and i find that as well.
    I normally have to stand no more than 6ft from my MAG so i know its not the best situation but i tried a couple of times to elevate my cab and seemed to loose a lot of bass and fullness.
    Is this translated out front or is it just when im close to the cab that the difference is noticable.
    I have a 1210 on the way to use with my ABM300 head and would like to get the best out of it. i play better if i have a good sound but i dont want to just EQ for me of course. Standing right on top of the amp is not ideal i know but i dont have any choice.
    Thanks

    Dave.
     
  10. +1 The strange thing about the smaller (1212 and 1210) Schroeder boxes is that I can actually hear them quite well when having to stand 'right on top of them'. However, a tilt back (just screw a spring loaded amp handle to the front center of the bottom of the cab) should solve your issue.
     
  11. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    It did loose bass and fullness, for two reasons. You lost the bass reinforcement that you normally get when the cab is very close to the floor, and you created bass-robbing phase cancellations by having the cab closer to the ceiling. Tilt the box back, don't raise it up.
     
  12. A very big +1 to that.

    Edit: Don at LDS incorporated a very cool thing on a small 2x8 cab that he made for a DB playing buddy of mine.... he used 'taller' rubber feet on the front of the cab vs. the back... it is just enough to tilt the cab back just a little bit and allow for better 'close-up' sound if you are standing right on top of the cab. Very nice touch and it seems to work very well.
     
  13. dave_bass5

    dave_bass5

    May 28, 2004
    London, UK.
    Thanks guy, thats what i thought.
    i did try once to tilt the cab back but got almost the same effect.
    It doesnt matter as i can hear myself ok most of the time, im just worried that the bass will get lost out front if i have to do it.

    Dave.
     
  14. spectorbass83

    spectorbass83

    Jun 6, 2005
    canada
    +1
    I play a 1212 and have no problems cutting through when playing notes in the upper register..It could be an EQ issue.
     
  15. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    That Schro was another TB'er's cab. I use a pair of bag End 2x10's stacked vertically to get that upper 10 nearer my ear. No problems with hearing myself or getting cut through with the BE cab's. Not dissin' the Schro cab but I prefer getting a driver some where up above so that on a cramped stage where you have to stand on top of your cab, the bass doesn't just blow past my knees...