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Schroeder 410 vs Epifani 410 vs ???

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by largo, Feb 24, 2006.


  1. largo

    largo

    Nov 19, 2004
    Hello all

    I currently run an Ashdown ABM 500 RC EVO II amp into Ashdown ABM 15 and 2x10 compact cabs. However, in the search for a lighter one cab solution I'm soon to be on the market for a new 410 light cab.

    At the moment I'm split between a Schroeder 410 light, Epifani 410 UL but am still open to advice and opinions. I haven't heard either of these cabs yet !

    So, what do you guys think ?

    I play in a wedding/function band playing a mix of songs from pop/rock/jazz etc.

    The one thing I like the idea of with the Schroeder is I can use it as a monitor (i.e. on it's side) when I'm playing in venues when I have to stand pretty close to the rig.

    Stephen
     
  2. EBMatt

    EBMatt

    Nov 21, 2003
    Springfield, MA
    I play out of an Epifani 4x10. It sounds amazing. I purchased it to replace my ampeg 6x10, which I got sick of moving around. Even though it's a 4x10, it still fills up the room likke my 6x10 did, and it sounds a hell of alot better. I highly recommend them. I've never played a Schroeder before, but they look like very well built cabs. I would love to play one.
     
  3. As you know, I think the Epi410UL is the greatest cab ever (and I've played most of the cabs out there, or at least have tried them). It's very light (57 pounds) and very efficient... very loud per watt. I stand right on top of mine many times and can hear it just fine. It's a very articulate cab... great for a modern tone... wonderful for slap... wonderful for clean fingerstyle... and still plenty of usable bottom.

    I also.... like my small Schroeders... but I have not tried the 410. The Schroeder line is voiced very differently from the Epi line... a little more 'rock' sounding... more low mid punch, etc. I just ordered a 21012 light to replace my 1212 regular....

    If you can wait a few weeks until you make a decision, you will start to see some reviews of the 410 and 21012 lights.

    Ken
     
  4. MacGroove

    MacGroove Brother of the Groove with a 'Pocket Full of Funk'

    Oct 5, 2005
    Calif.
    A couple of weeks shouldn't hurt. I'm curious about the new Schroeders also.
    I have the Epi 410UL and it's a stand alone cab. I play everything, rock, funk, R&B and jazz. The B is tight, great full and warm low end, articulate mids and sweet smooth highs and like Ken said, 57 lbs.
    Also coming out soon if you can wait is the new Epifani Performance Series, the PS410 is 800 watts @ 4 or 8 ohms and is 79 lbs. A little bigger than the 410UL, but it's voicing has an extended low end frequency, not muddy at all, just as tight as the 410UL but fuller.
     
  5. pablomigraine

    pablomigraine Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 9, 2005
    New York
    VP & Managing Director - Willcox Basses
    I have the regular Schroeder 410. Maybe the Epifani will give a you more hifi sound, but in terms of bottom and pure volume for size, you'll love the Schroeder. These things are amazing. I've gon thru about a dozen 410's and settled on this.
     
  6. largo

    largo

    Nov 19, 2004
    Just want to BUMP this again ....

    Living in the UK I don't have a chance to play the Schroeder cabs, but here's what I'm thinking so far....

    Schroeder 410L

    Pros - (1) same weight as Epi 410UL but (2) smaller cab
    Cons - (1) more expensive here in the UK and will cost around £350 or around $500 more than an Epi 410, (2) can't try beforehand

    Epi 410UL

    Pros - (1) price (2) can try out beforehand
    Cons - (1) larger cab and (2) possible projection when standing very close to the cab ?


    So, I'm asking you guys for more advice.
    Do I buy a Schro 410L and is it worth the extra $500 over an Epi 410UL ?

    I've even started thinking of the Epi 310UL but again, I play in a function band and sometimes have to stand very close to the speaker. I need to be able to hear my backline, hence why I though Schroeder as I could always fire the angled speakers up (cab on it's side) if I had to.

    Please help !

    Stephen
     
  7. If you can get the Epi410UL for $500 less than the Schroeder, that's a no-brainer to me. I also, many times, stand right on top of my 410 and have absolutely no problem hearing it. The idea that the slanted speakers in the Schroeder put on its side gives you more 'near field monitoring' is false... the speakers in the baffle sound very different from the front mounted speakers... it doesn't work that way.

    The 410UL puts out so much more sound than the 310UL (although it is larger and 9 pounds heavier), that if you don't mind the extra size (you will need an SUV or van to comfortably haul it around), then it's the cab for you.

    Also, make sure you get the 4ohm version of the Epi410UL, if that's the direction you are going.... it can handle all the power you can throw at it.

    I really like my 21012Light so far... but would not pay more than the wonderful Epi410UL for it. As far as balance, precision, articulateness, etc., I still find the Epi a superior cab.
     
  8. uglybassplayer

    uglybassplayer

    Aug 24, 2001
    New Jersey
    Ken, I don't know if you've experienced this, but that's the one thing that sometimes freaks me out a bit when using my 1210. To my ears the cabinet sounds different depending on whether I'm standing several feet away directly to the left or to the right of it, which I attribute to the output of the baffled speaker. When I'm standing to the left of it (near the baffle), the low end is very predominent, but if I move to the other side it diminishes.

    - Ugly.
     
  9. cheezewiz

    cheezewiz

    Mar 27, 2002
    Ohio
    I've heard and played through Ken's UL410. For a variety band like you are talking about, I think it is the perfect cab.
     
  10. I really haven't noticed that, but I believe a few others have. It seems that the sound coming out of that baffle is pretty 'omnidirectional', so I wonder if it was more the room you were playing (or the rooms that I used it in might be reducing an effect that's there:) . I've found, in general, that the Schroeders maintain their tone farther off axis than a 'typical' cab... but again, don't know if that's just the specific situations/rooms that I've been in.
     
  11. largo

    largo

    Nov 19, 2004
    Ken, How come when I asked Jorg via email he said that by tilting the cab the angled speakers could be used as "personal monitor" system ?
     
  12. uglybassplayer

    uglybassplayer

    Aug 24, 2001
    New Jersey
    Truthfully, the first time I really noticed it was at a gig we did a few weeks ago at a Retreat Center. We've played there dozens of times before and we're setup the same way every time. my rig is setup pretty much center stage with me positioned stage right (on the opposite side of the baffle). I wandered over to the other side (next to the drummer) while playing and immediately noticed the bass and low mids were fuller and deeper. I've never experimented turning the cab on it's end or flipping it over so the baffle faces the other side, but now my curiosity is peaked and I'll have to try that at our next gig to see what (if any) effect it has.

    - Frank.
     
  13. Jorg is of course the expert. My point was this... first, with a larger cab like a 410, it's not an issue... at least not for me. It sits up high enough that even when you are on top of it, you can hear fine. Second, regarding the Schroeders, the sound coming from the baffle is quite different (especially in the 21012, the 1210 and even the 1212) than coming from the front mounted speaker in my experience. I don't see having the baffle speaker pointed up at you as giving you an accurate sound coming from the cab, and I would assume it might also change the sound out in the room (but not sure about that). I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not the same thing as tilting a normal cab up... the sound will be different in my experience.

    So... again, I have played gigs with both my small Schroeders in the standard position and my Epi410UL where I am standing no farther than a foot or so from the cab, and I have zero issues hearing myself.
     
  14. largo

    largo

    Nov 19, 2004
    Thanks again, Ken.
    I seem to be sold on the Epifani now, at least I can try these out in the UK and will decide between the 310UL and 410UL although at present the 410UL is winning the race !
    Stephen
     
  15. One more piece of info. The 310UL is a great cab, and puts out lot's of sound for its size. However, it sits just a bit lower than the 410UL, and is voiced a little differently... a little less mid present. So, I have been in situations standing right on top of my 310UL that I did have trouble hearing myself.

    The good news is, that cab is still tall enough to use castors with (i.e., you can wheel it on castors without bending over too much). So, I ordered mine with Nicks wonderful removable castors (they are a 'plate' design that doesn't require a big hole being drilled in the cab). Many times, I just took the rear castors off that cab, and it tilted it just enough to solve the problem. I never have to do that with the 410UL, and it's a large enough cab with enough ooomph that I've never felt the need to take the castors off to couple to the floor for more low end punch.

    Good luck on your search!

    K
     
  16. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    The Schroeder 410R is my weapon of choice. I can't say I've played through an Epi 410 r or l. But I have played through an Epi 310 R and 212 R when it was a rectangle, not a square shape.

    First of all, you don't have to concern yourself about turning the cabinet porthole up if you have to stand close. The cabinet is easily heard. If you can handle the 75 or so pounds which I'd love to do 50, but hey, the non-lights are what they are!!!, it covers any music, not just rock, it has plenty of projection into the room...most times I'm not mic'd up through the PA, although that's available, It's really a great cabinet.

    There is no no no reason in my mind to get 2 cabinets for your application. If lightness is your thang, get a 410 or 21012 light. If it doesn't matter a 410R is "reasonably" priced, 1400 watt capacity, 40hz low end response, very efficient and can get extremely loud without distortion.

    Until I got the Schroeder, the nicest cab sounding volume and such was the Epi 212. Nick makes great stuff. But I have to say the 212 and from what Ken J said about the depth, really made a shamble outta my back seat and trunk. I actually had to sell a car to fit my cabinet in easier!!! I'm never, never gonna do that again!!!

    The 16 inch depth of the Schroeders is extremely compatible with most backseats and many trunks.

    Lkaye
     
  17. largo

    largo

    Nov 19, 2004
    Thanks Larry

    Between yourself and Ken, it's not easy to make a decision.
    I was taken with the Schroeders, purely on the TB thread and other's reviews but I guess price does come into it too and that's where the Epi wins at present.

    Larry, hand on heart would you pay an extra $500 for the Schroeder 410 light rather than the Epifani ?

    Stephen

    P.S. I'm in the UK, but in the US what is the price difference between the Schr 410L and the Epi 410UL ?
     
  18. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    as I'm a Schroeder dealer. The 410 L in the us is $1099 + shipping. Are there some sorta heavy tariff's, import duties etc...something that would bring it up to the $500 more that's being "mentioned" here.

    I suggest you email Jorg and see if you have any options that would lessen the price.

    by the way the 410 regular is $949+shipping to US.
     
  19. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    unless you really need the sheer volume of the UL410, the UL310 is a great choice. i love mine, and its always been my goto "stupid loud" cab.

    it is a good deal smaller than the 410, and is that much easier to move around.
     
  20. At the moment, I'm looking for a light, and preferably compact, cab for small gigs. I have a vintage Ampeg SVT and a Modulus Q6. I don't need to play stupidly loud, but it's important the cab handles the low B without starting to fart.

    The choice is between the Schroeder 1210, 1212, 21012, 410, and the Epifani 410UL, 310UL and 210UL. The problem is, I can only try the Schroeder 1210 and 21012. I've so far only tried the 1210 and while I was impressed by the way it handled the power from the SVT and stayed well defined while playing the low B, I didn't really like the sound. Too much mid for my taste.

    However, I've been told, the Schroeders should really be tried in a band situation, because it cuts well through the mix. Is this true? Are there any of you out there who like the Schroeder in a band situation, but not when played alone? How do the 1210, 1210, 21012 and 410 compare?

    Concerning the Epifanis: they're priced very similar to the Schroeders. I hear people on TB say they are very loud. Can they handle the Low B well? I guess the 410 does, but also the 310 and maybe even 210?