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Schroeder 410 vs Epifani UL-310

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by needmoney, Nov 11, 2005.


  1. Alright, give it to me :D .

    Amp is a GK 1001RB-II. I'm after chest thumping punch, pristine clarity, tight lows, and great cutting tone. I don't play in a band but I may in the near future, so I need nice lounge room tone as well :p

    I'm waiting to hear the price in Australia of the Epifani. If the Schroeder is significantly cheaper then I'll probably stick with that, but I'd still like some opinions.
     
  2. Waabs

    Waabs Employee, Musical Instrument Retail

    Aug 1, 2004
    Australia
    If you're finding the price from The Bass Player in Sydney for Epifani (they're the only place who do them as far as I know) I've found that phoning them is much better than emailing. They used to have a toll free number but I don't think it's published anymore. From memory it still works but I just can't find it.
     

  3. The Epi310UL is more similar to the 1210 in volume and will not do 'chest thumping' at high volumes. The Epi410UL will, and given the amazing sound coming out of the 1210, I'm sure the Schroeder410 would also. These cabs have very different tone profiles... lot's of posts recently on the Epi/Schroeder/Accu comparison thread of a couple of days ago.
     
  4. pablomigraine

    pablomigraine Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 9, 2005
    New York
    VP & Managing Director - Willcox Basses
    I've tried both. I own the Schroeder 410. These are very different cabs. The Epi is very clear at any volume, and honesly has the clearest response in the super low end ( five string tuned down a whole step). The Schro is very clear also at low to medium volumes, but when you really start to juice it, it takes on a fat round tone unlike any other cab I've ever heard. Alot of bassists spend forever trying to get that sound with different basses and eq, but this cab does it all on its own. This is not to say that the cab looses clarity at high volumes, becuase it doesn't. It behaves like a tube guitar head, when you push it and really heat those tubes up, it takes on a whole different color. So does the Schro. I can tell you for certain the Schroeder gets SIGNIFIGANTLY louder than the epi 410, so I'm sure the same is even more true for the 310.

    This cab thumps, no doubt about it.
     
  5. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    you're still dealing with 78 to maybe 82+ pounds vs mid 40's to 50? with the Epifani. The volume of the 410 Schroe has been compared to some 610 and 810 cabs. The Epifani 310 may be as loud as a low efficiency 410, but it's no 610 or 810 equivalent. As others have already said, these two lines of cabinets, not just the 310 or 410 are very different beasts when it comes to tone.

    There were very few to no gigs where my Epifani 310 (old model, not with neo's) could EVER be too loud. The new speakers are much cleaner according to the reviews and users like Ken Jung who answered your thread already.

    My 1210 (I also have a 410 schroe) Schroeder can be too loud on many of these same rooms, and the 410 can always be too loud if I let it. I agree that the 410 really kicks butt especially if you can crank it a little bit, but for me, that 'cranked" volume is generally "too" loud on stage. It's like having a car that can go 160 MPH and has 500 horsepower, but you're always stuck driving where there's not only a 70 mph speed limit, but there's always lasar/radar covering each foot of the highway..(for me, this is usually the father or mother of the bride or groom complaining we're too loud no matter how quiet you play :crying: ).

    To answer plainly, if the 310 is loud enough for you, you may want to compare it to a 1210 or 1212 for tone, weight, volume, and price rather than the 410, BUT, the amount of happy Schroeder owners compared to total Schroeder owners seems to be about the highest ratio of any of the speaker cabs I've seen. I know that I've totally eliminated any Speaker Cab GAS (SCG) symtoms after Jorg's boxes have arrived 30 gigs ago.

    Lkaye
     
  6. DAcat

    DAcat

    Jun 14, 2005
    Iowa
    After just trying out a Schroeder 1210 and a 410 cab 6 days ago-I can tell you the 410 was probably 50% louder when played through the same amp at the same settings-the 410 had a much deeper and tighter sound...these cabs do not sound the same as others have said.I've not played the Epi. However,contrary to what some have hinted in the past on threads, I do not feel that the 410 cab is too loud for just about any venue-these speakers are so efficient that I've even played them through a SWR 160 and I've never heard an SWR sound so sweet,even at low volumes....Peace...DAcat. :cool:
     
  7. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    The 410 can be made to be too loud at almost every gig I have. The volume being 50% louder than the 1210 at the same settings is absolutely on the money!!! It should be louder!! it's got 40 inches of speaker vs 22 and almost 2x the wattage capacity!! It is punchier and cleaner. Every point that DAcat just made is exactly the same as I see it.

    The 410 can be turned down, but just as the 410 kinda goes into a different level of coolness tonewise when it begins to get cranked a little, so does the 1210 but in a little different way. The only difference for me is that the "next level" of coolness tonewise with the 1210 still is "acceptable" stage volume in many cases, whereas you better be able to turn up the 410 without stage volume complaints or consequences or considerations, because I can flat out tell you that with "just" 600 watts at 4 ohms with a "conservative" rating of wattage volume wise, I can't get my 410 anywhere near the maximum dial settings I can get the 1210 without being extraordinarily loud, unbalanced, and almost overbearing.

    I like being heard, and the key advantage of the Schroeders as I see it tonewise is you can hear yourself and others can hear you more easily playing quieter because the tone is more cutting than with other typical cabinets. I'm playing tonight at a smaller to midsized bar with fairly good acoustics. I'd rather take the 410 for "show", but the 1210 is more than adequate here and can be cranked up to that more "magical" level yet still be "quiet" enough to be mic'd up through the PA for a little extra oooph, without being the only one heard on or off stage.

    Lkaye
     
  8. 8mmOD

    8mmOD

    Mar 20, 2005
    USA
    I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
    i think this is relevant to the original post, but i will start a new thread if the poster thinks this question is OT.

    This is for the Schroeder 410 owners. You say the cab reacts in a cool way when it is pushed. I assume all of you have been using higher wattage amps with it?

    Has anyone tried the Schroeder 410 with - say - a 300 watt s/s amp and really pushed the amp? I am curious - Does the 410 "take on a whole different color" because the speakers are being pushed, because the power amp is being pushed or do you think its a combination of the the two?
     
  9. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    But, best I can do is say that last night I used the 1210 at a bar gig...medium sized...there's no way I could have used the 410 at the same volume settings on my head..the 1210 sounded full, punchy, clean at the same time, plenty of bottom end. Had the preamp at 11:00 and the master volume at 12:00 on the Focus. Had the bottom flat on my eq, bass, and the amp. No farting out.

    What I'm thinking is that maybe you're right...that it's a possibility that both the head's output and the speakers are just starting to change? if that's the right word, as more volume is applied.

    The 1210 went from a nice clean boy at lower to medium volume to a growly animal at closer to it's breakup point. I was looking at the 12 incher and it was barely moving.

    My best guess is that with the 410, although a 300 watt amp may not be "ideal", it will certainly be adequate for the most part, but you could possibly miss this secondary "afterburner" type of tone these higher wattage Schroe's seem to be capable of.

    Lkaye
     
  10. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    I own a 1210, but I'll take a stab at this. None of the "cool" aspect these guys are mentioning is coming from amp compression or distortion, IMHO. The right 300 watt amp, like, say an EBS Hd-350, will get about as loud as the Focus (I've owned both, and currently use the Focus), and will get the mojo going in my experience. But even the 1210 can easily handle a lot more power, and it sounds a lot cooler when doing so, also in my experience. This might be a case where power compression in the speaker actually sounds good to many of us, I think. Could be something else entirely though, I guess.

    Caveat: I only play fretless basses, and I sometimes do very extreme things with them. :ninja:
     
  11. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    Nice to hear from someone who has the same Amp/speaker combination!!! Did you go to the Focus because of the weight and/or other factors?

    Tonight I'm playing in a larger ballroom at a hotel for a wedding. My guess is that even though the 410 might be a better choice for covering "the room", with PA support and the weight differential, I'm probably gonna use the 1210 again. It does get more useage than the 410 for my gigs...about a 10 to 1 ratio.

    I may end up, when I have the bucks, to get a 1212 and sell the 410 and look into the focus slave amp if we need to take both cabinets. I have to believe that 1 10 and 3 12's is even more of a powerhouse speaker array than a single 410. I do like the sound of 12's having had an Epifani 212 fairly recently and it being, until the Schroeders, the top single cabinet solution that I've previously owned.

    I also understand that the Focus is a really good sounding head for fretless and upright db or EUB because it's very natural sounding. For electric fretted bass, I still use an outboard 31 band eq to get all heads, past and current to get me the tone I like consistently. The Focus doesn't have a lot of drastic adjustability but does positively influenece the overall tone. I bought it for volume vs weight more than it's natural, un-eq'd tone.

    Works well for me?!!!

    Lkaye
     
  12. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    Warning, OT swerve:
    I've been watching your threads for a while with interest. I got the Focus because it's the best sounding amp that I've been able to find for my particular EUB. The weight was a factor too though. All my gigs these days are on EUB, and most are in a trio doing standads at wineries, restaurants, festivals, and other similar stuff. I had an iAmp 800, which was nearly as good sounding for EUB (and maybe better for electric fretless), but cutting the weight by 75% doesn't hurt my feelings any, and the Focus doen't require any dweebing to sound good. :cool: I actually use a CxL-112 for most of my jazz gigs, but the Schroeder is the call for rock, fusion, blues, hip-hop, etc. jams, and the open mikes that I run in a 300 seat club. I play fretless BG at pretty much all of those. So the Schro gets used at least a couple of times a week right now.

    I also understand that the Focus is a really good sounding head for fretless and upright db or EUB because it's very natural sounding. For electric fretted bass, I still use an outboard 31 band eq to get all heads, past and current to get me the tone I like consistently. The Focus doesn't have a lot of drastic adjustability but does positively influence the overall tone. I bought it for volume vs weight more than it's natural, un-eq'd tone.

    I play fretless in a lot of situations where I don't want it to sound natural and organic all the time. I built my own preamp, I'll do a thread about it soon. I also have used a parametic EQ and a Boss modeler thingie as a substitute front end for the Focus. Both work very well, either in the loop return, bypassing the Focus preamp, or in front of it. The Focus front end is perfect for my EUB though, and is also smoking for fretless BG when I want to emulate upright sound a bit.

    Back On Topic:

    I may end up, when I have the bucks, to get a 1212 and sell the 410 and look into the focus slave amp if we need to take both cabinets. I have to believe that 1 10 and 3 12's is even more of a powerhouse speaker array than a single 410. I do like the sound of 12's having had an Epifani 212 fairly recently and it being, until the Schroeders, the top single cabinet solution that I've previously owned.

    I've thought a lot about doing the exact same thing, but I'm also considering trading my 1210 for a 410 Schro right now. I'd love to hear from anyone who's done the 1210/1212 comparison to the 410. I'd also be happy to hear about the Epi 410 and/or 310 in the context of fretless BG a la Claypool and beyond. I'm talking slide, mega-distortion, feedback, you name it. But it has to be able to revert to "nice" traditional walking lines in a heartbeat too, kind of a tall order. I saw a guy with two Epi 112s the other night, I was impressed.
     
  13. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    As most of you know, I'm a big Epifani fan. I own and am
    very happy with my 310UL. For size and weight its wonderful.
    I was just able to check out a GK 1001rbll head with my
    epi 310 and a GK 410rbh box. Like other companies, GK is
    finally matching their boxes and amps. We were blown away
    by the GK amp and box combo. It just sounded huge! Lots
    of lows with tons of cut. If carrying 80.5 lbs of speaker is
    not a problem, I can't think of a better combination. The
    GK box is probably easy to get and less expensive than the
    other boxes. The GK/GK combo will give you lots of volume,
    deep punchy lows, sweet clear highs, with mid clarity and
    slice for less money. Just my opinion.
     
  14. Funnily enough, out here in Australia, the Schroeder 410 is actually cheaper than the 410RBH. The Epifani UL-410 is more expensive than both.

    Also, it would be MUCH easier to get the Schroeder or Epifani, as the distributor for GK probably wouldn't have a 4 ohm 410RBH in stock and they'd have to ship it which could take ages. I only just got my 1001RB-II after waiting for 2 months.
     
  15. After reading a few threads about the Epi cabs, the UL-410 is quickly becoming a nice choice. Would a 1001RB-II be a good match for this cab?
     
  16. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    I use 1600W into my 410, so when it gets juicy, it's not because of some change in the amplifier's operating parameters -- just increased gain.
    Seems like the tone just gets more lively (if that makes sense).

    I'd really like to try out a lead-sled type amp (i.e. Crown MA-2402) with the Schroe 410 to see how the cab responds.

    A similar thing happened with my former Bergantino HT322.
    It got more tube-ier sounding. The main difference with the HT322 (at least with the PLX1602) was that the low end got a bit looser sounding, where the Schroe 410 stays tighter.
     
  17. DAcat

    DAcat

    Jun 14, 2005
    Iowa
    Maybe this will help answer your question. A week ago I tried out a 410 and a 1210 (before deciding on buying the 410 :hyper: )with a Yorkville 800 watt head...the 410 was about twice :eek: as loud at the same settings as the 1210, and when I turned the Yorkie up to 2-3:00,the 410 speakers really sang with a different tonality, loud,& clear ,very sweet,punchy, and powerful-there was no doubt this cab could handle a loud gig. However the Yorkie head has a lot of different tones that can be gotten from it by increasing the gain and leaving the volume down which still gave me very good tone thru the 410 cab at quieter volumes,and the Yorkie is a hybrid amp that can go form a s/s sound to a fat tube amp sound or mixture of the two, and again, the Schroeder speakers are very efficient and do sound good at low volumes. To illustrate this, I ordered a Yorkie 800 :D ,and I won't get it till later this week :meh: , so I've used a couple of different amps (An SWR 160 and an SWR 350) with my 410 cab this week-alone and with my band, and here's what I've noticed playing with different amp settings. At low volumes I turn up the gain on my amps(both) for the tone to sound as rich as I want. I also EQ in more Bass Boost and Mid Boost on my active bass EQ(Ibanez SR900)....but even if I turn up the 160 head, it starts sounding pretty darn sweet and loud, and I even have turn down my bass and treble boost on my Bass EQ . The same thing happens when I play the 350 head softly or crank it up...about the only difference I can tell is that the 350 is a little louder...but both are plenty loud for our band (previously the SWRs powering 2 SWR cabs,a 2x12 and a 1x15 could barely be heard)...so all in all-I think that The 410 can work at lower volumes well and can be run by fairly small wattage amps,ie,160 watts. But in the end,we are going to get different results depending on which amp we use,which settings,what volume we're playing at,how many watts we're juicing the speakers with,tubes vs. solid state vs. hybrid amps, as well as what kind of bass we play and whether its Passive/Active,and what other contols it has or what it's own"sound coloration" is, as well as the "sound " made by our own "fingers"...all I can say is that this is a remarkable cabinet and it gives you more tonal possibilities than before-and allows you to be heard as it slices thru the mix-much like my old Acoustic 360/361s did in the old days . But the Schroeder 410, IMHO,does it with more punch,less roar,and you can hear your self waaaayyyyyy better. With my Acoustic 360s, I couldn't hear my self onstage until I was turned up so loud that 30-40 feet from the stage, I was practically collapsing aortas in the audience-till I finally got extension speakers-2x12s for each 361 cab, that I used as monitors to hear my self onstage. Jorg Schroeder seems to have solved this problem (?) in his cabs by having the front firing speakers for the punch, and to hear your self,and the rear, side "baffled" speakers that cut through the mix and maybe (?) they also are what kicks into overdrive at loud volumes when fed the high watts...As the late, great Roy Orbison said... "Its A Mystery Girl"...trying to descibe how a strawberry tastes to someoneis difficult, its much easier to have them sample one for them selves ;) ...Try the Schro if you even think you might want one...don't obsess :confused: for months like I did (see my posts on the Schroeder Megathread)...Ya gotta love it, though...Peace...DAcat :cool:
     
  18. 8mmOD

    8mmOD

    Mar 20, 2005
    USA
    I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
    Thanks DAcat, that actually helps me a lot. But you gotta put some space between those paragraphs... WHEW!!! :D

    I actually am fortunate to have tried all of Jorgs cabs, but not with my own bass & amps. I had gone in expecting to prefer the 1212 & actually liked the 410 better. But a different amp was used for each cab so I was not sure how much diff that made. I don't mind the weight of the 410, I aleady use a 410 + a 15. I think the Schro 410 would be a better all around 'single' cab for me. Thanks for starting this thread, needmoney! Sorry that I pulled it a bit OT. :bassist:
     
  19. el_Kabong

    el_Kabong

    Jul 11, 2005
    My backup amp is a 700rb, the epi sounds very good with it. With around double the wattage I think you'd have some serious punch under your hands. If you dig the GK sound it would be hard to be unhappy with that combination, imo.
     
  20. steels01

    steels01

    May 1, 2009
    "Originally Posted by needmoney
    After reading a few threads about the Epi cabs, the UL-410 is quickly becoming a nice choice. Would a 1001RB-II be a good match for this cab?"

    I have an Epifani UL410 paired with the Epifani PS1000 head ($999)- It is a MONSTER! I initially had the Epi paired with an Eden WT1205, same power ratings but the PS1000 is MUCH louder and clear/clean sounding. I also tried a Markbass Tube800 and was not as happy as I am with the PS1000-the pair just sing together so well- there is a kind of "sweet spot" if you get to play somewhere big enough to push the rig and get it hot. I get constant compliments on my tone from soundguys and other bassists. The low end is absolutely ridiculous and I can be as clean and pristine or punchy and aggressive as I want. It cuts through anything and can be louder than anything else on stage if need be. The best part is the pair weigh less than 70 LBS combined! You won't be dissapointed with The Epifani.:hyper: