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Schroeder Blasphemy!!!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by BassJunkie730, Jul 14, 2005.

  1. BassJunkie730


    Feb 3, 2005
    Ok, so I might get flamed out of existence here, but I'm thinking about changing out the 10 in my 1210. :bag:

    First I think the motivation comes from wanting to experiment. But the other itch comes from looking at other Eminence speakers. I'm pretty much convinced that Jorg uses a Delta 10 type speaker. but I'f heard all over the place that the delta isn't a great "bass" speaker. It's a good mid speaker.

    What do you all think about changing the 10 to a Beta 10? I know the cabinet does not have 2 cu ft. of volume - but it's also not ported.

    But then I am wondering if there was a reason why Jorg didn't use the beta 10 (he must have at one point when designing his cabs)

    Wouldn't a speaker with a better Xmax be better for the side firing driver in the 1210? So why did jorg pick a driver that has such a small xmax?

    I'm just wondering if there are ways to "hot rod" the cab with a mere driver change for even better low end extension and definition.

    I really don't care if the RMS power rating goes up or down - since i don't run my PLX bridged at 1600W anyway with the cab (I tried once at it started to distort - granted I was slamming it pretty hard but it was distorting in the lows.)

    I don't want to ruffle anyone's schroder loving feathers here but with such an interesting cabinet design - there has to be a way to produce different results with just driver changes. and have the results be good.

    I've been looking at the beta 10 and the bp102 and I've wondered what the results would be. (granted the reccommended cabinet volume for both of those drivers is bigger than the speaker suppplied with the cab.)

    Let me know what you all think.


  2. TheChariot


    Jul 6, 2004
    Boston, MA
    BLASPHEMY!!! :mad:

    haha. I dont even own a Schroeder... but I'm only 18, so I'm sure somewhere down the line I'll end up with one.

    Some will say your crazy, and some will probably say "go ahead and experiment!".... As for Jorg himself, I'd like to hear his input. My guess is that he'd probably be all for it, unless he's tried it himself to find little success.

    Experiment. Why not? You can always switch back if its not to your liking.
  3. Juneau


    Jul 15, 2004
    Dallas, TX.
    Yeah Id PM Jorg and just ask him if he's tried it. Couldnt hurt anyhow :)
  4. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    Um...I'm pretty sure, that if it's like my 1212 it is ported. Check out the inner angled baffle. The last time I had to open mine up, I noted what looked to be a port.

    I second asking Jorg...he's pretty on top of stuff, so I'm sure he'd be interested.

    ...otherwise, I wonder why you got a 1012, since it sounds like the 1212 would be a better, 'lower' match for you.
  5. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    In my discussions with Jorg before I bought he was very forthcoming and informative. Call him, he's a nice guy.
  6. I'd call him too. Just tell him you're asking for a friend, not for you... :D Cause you are talkin blasphemy, you know...

  7. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Olympia, WA
    Although he is very busy, Jorg is very generous with his time, you should call him. His knowledge about cabs, speakers, basses, and amps is valuable. He's a gigging bass player like us. He wants you to have a bass cabinet you will love, and he'll help you with that. Sure, he is in the cab making business to make some money, but he won't push one if his cabs on you if it won't suit your needs.

  8. it is blasphemy though! not as bad as wanting to change pickuips in a Sadowsky, but still bad.
  9. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I'd be very surprised if Jorg used over the counter Deltas. In fact, I can almost guarantee he didn't. He's got the brand logo printed on the dust cap, somethin which eminence offers only on their custom OEM speakers

    Those speakers could have any number of parameters that are different from any of the Garden variety Eminence speakers. Too many variables. I say leave it alone. There's a greater chance of going backwards than making any improvements.
  10. msquared


    Sep 19, 2004
    Kansas City
    I say that leaving it alone is a bunch of crap.

    If you are ever faced with the question of "should I do a mod that is easily reversable?" the answer should always be "yes".

    Exploration = learning. Learning = good. Nobody is a perfect cab designer with a hotline into your brain.
  11. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The 1210 doesn't use a stock Delta 10 because the Delta 10 is a steel frame and the 1210 ten has a cast frame. The power ratings and magnet size are the same but quite likely little else.
  12. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY

    I don't think that 'logo' was printed...that's Jorg's signature...he signs each finished cab.

    Unfortunately, I had to have my front 12 replaced...and mine's now unsigned. :(
  13. im only 16 and the 1212 stopped my cab search dead in its tracks

    my advice to the Junkie is to call Jorg and talk to him about the speakers he uses and what speakers would make good replacments. hes a great guy and will do everything he can to accomidate you. just dont get him in a bad mood cuz then he sounds like Arnold Swarzenager in in attack mode :D im only kidding jorg

    oh and the cab is definatly ported (the 1212 is at least). when i got mine i had to open it up cuz something didnt sound right and dag nabbit there was HUGE crack right near the port. though the port is more of just a cut out in the baffle and not a normal one. Thats also the reason i know what Jorg sounds like in attack mode... he was pretty mad at Fedex :p
  14. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Yes but when you're dealing with something scientific, it doesn't hurt to base your mods on the appropriate maths rather than pure guesswork. Especially when getting it wrong can end in in money wasted.

    I'm not affraid of making mods. I just like to plan them first.
  15. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Now there's an enlightened point of view. First, the cab probably is tuned for the particular driver it came with. Second, so you think there's a chance in hell that you will stumble blindly into improving the sound of the cab just by trying out a driver for which the cab was not designed? I mean, you think Jorg, the experienced, respected, premier cabinet designer just pulled some old speaker off the shelf and stuck it in there without any research and tests?

  16. Bah! Don't let Munji get you down, Msquared.

    They scoffed at the Donner party too. They scoffed at the countless people who attempted to go over Niagara Falls in a barrel! They always scoff at what they don't understand. Go forth on your quest, brave knight, and knock thine self out. I salute you, Brave Knight of the Speaker Cabinet on your quest for the Holy Grail of driver/cab compatibility! The lifesblood of a long line of Darwin Award winners from deep in the mists of time courses through your veins!

    Make sure you keep your original speakers availabe just in case though....

  17. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Well, I was just saying exactly the same thing as Petebass, except not as eloquently or as politically correct.

    You, on the other hand are subtle, if not devious ... Darwin Award ... nyuk nyuk nyuk.
  18. Bigwan


    Feb 22, 2002
    Ballymena (hey)
    Just noticed that Jorg has removed the page he had on his site specifically for the 2 driver types he uses (10" and 12").

    If any of you remember seeing this page the frequency response plots were identical (and i do mean identical) to the plots on the eminence website for the delta 10 and delta 12LF drivers...

    Not that there's anything wrong with that!

    As for changing out the 10"... get that man something else to tinker with... somebody!
  19. rockstarbassist

    rockstarbassist Banned

    Apr 30, 2002
    The Woodlands, TX
    Endorsing Artist: HCAF
    Well also remember that you might be distorting the lows a bit if you bridge because that 10" only handles 350W RMS. The 12 handles 500W. That's why the 1210 takes 850W and the 1212 takes 1000W. If you do decide (for some weird reason) to throw in a replacement, I'd see if you can maybe get a little higher rating for that speaker and up the wattage handling.

    I was curious about that before I got mine as well, but I mean, it only makes sense. I just cut my bass on the Dem if it starts breaking up at max levels with a bridged power amp. Works out just nicely.
  20. rockstarbassist

    rockstarbassist Banned

    Apr 30, 2002
    The Woodlands, TX
    Endorsing Artist: HCAF
    And sometimes it's ok to tinker.

    I didn't do anything to change or add to the sound, but I DID add a spring-loaded handle under the cab to prop it up some and project towards me better. Works great! I don't plan on getting rid of the 1210, like ever, so I'd say it's a good investment.

    But munji said it right. A lot of time went into the development of the cabs, so what's in 'em probably sounds as good as you're gonna get with that setup. But with speaker replacement being such an easy thing to do, I'd try it. Just make sure you give DETAILED results when it all goes down!