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Schroeder V. Euphonic Audio

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by mattwells, Aug 18, 2004.


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  1. mattwells

    mattwells

    Mar 19, 2003
    GA
    Okay, I need someone who has owned both EA and Schroeder cabs to give me a run down. I am looking at trying to find a VL 208 and pair it with a CXL112 or going ahead and buying a 1210. I will be pairing these speakers with an iAMP 500.

    I want something transparent enough to use with double bass, portable, and flexible (I will be using it with upright and electric).

    What are your impressions of each?

    I like the idea of two different cabs (for flexability purposes), but it is not that easy to find a 208, and if the 1210 can do the job just as well, I will go with it.

    Matt
     
  2. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    IME, Schroeders are more 'aggressive' sounding than EAs. They are also more efficient.

    EAs are flatter, but not as loud.
     
  3. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I can't see the VL208 and the CXL112 pairing up well because of the big efficiency difference. And although I haven't heard one myself, I'd not anticipate any Schroeder cab being all that great for upright - all the reviews so far suggest very full lows and in particular a punchy low mid growl - much more of a bass guitar oriented tone. Maybe I've got wrong end of the stick but it sounds like a flatter and better version of the Eden tone. (Has anyone compared a Schroeder with an Eden XST?)

    How about just a CXL112 on its own? Or maybe paired with a Wizzy?

    Alex
     
  4. Matt Morgan

    Matt Morgan Fellow Conspirator Supporting Member

    Oct 21, 2001
    Plano, TX
    The EA CXL 112 is rated at 103db sensitivity which is a VERY high efficiency rating and is as effecient or more efficient than any of the Schroeder cabinets with the exception of the 21012 (104db). I own two CXL112s and with any amount of power I put to them they are VERY loud and VERY clean and clear. They don't have the high power ratings of the Schroeders but they are smaller and very transportable.
    The difference in the SPL with an 850w Schroeder 1210 vs. a 350w EA CXL112 would be 132 db vs. 128 db. That is if you're capable of putting a FULL 850w into the Schroeder.
    Just my thoughts.
     
  5. embellisher

    embellisher Holy Ghost filled Bass Player Staff Member Supporting Member

    You're right about the CXL 112, it is a very efficient design. Silly me, I was referring to the VL208. I didn't even see the mention of the CXL 112 in the original post.

    I will agree with with Alex and say that the VL208 would not pair up very well with the CXL 112, because of the big efficiency difference.
     
  6. Ericman197

    Ericman197

    Feb 23, 2004
    Iowa
    I'm not really sure if the Schroeders are good for upright. I'd hesitate to agree with you though, because there is an upright player on Jorg's player list. I don't play upright though, so I really couldn't tell you if the Schroeders would work for that purpose.

    EA vs. Schroeders: I don't own EA cabs, so I'm not sure about this. From what I've been told, the Schroeders are in fact louder. The stats can be very deceptive.

    Eden XST vs. Schroders: I plan on A/B'ing them when I get the chance to bring my 4x10"s from the basement. I'm in no rush to do so; my Schroeders are upstairs and I can't lift the Edens on my own up a flight of stairs for fear of back injury. When I have a friend or two over I'll try them. Basically, the main difference I noticed is that the tweeter on the Schroeders is a bit cleaner, less clanky, and a bit louder. Overall, the Schroeders seem to more efficient and lighter weight for their size. I think the Schroeders are deeper, but I haven't played the Edens in a while.
     
  7. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Matt:

    If you can find VL-208's for sale, buy as many as you can get your hands on (which will be tough, as I am always on the prowl for another VL-208, and I know several others who are, too). I have heard a lot of cabs - no Schroeders, though! - and to date, the VL-208 is the best. Two of them are wonderful, and three or more are jaw-droppingly good. I agree that they wouldn't pair up all that well with a CxL-112, sonically, or from an efficiency perspective. The VL-110/VL-208 mini stack is a nice alternative to two VL-208's, and even a VL-210/VL-208 pair up well.

    Not having heard the Schroeder cabs, I really can't compare, but if you do a search on my name and EA, I have posted a ton on my experiences with some of their cabs. Alex mentioned the Wizzy, which I think is another one of the best cabs EA has made. It is both warm sounding and extremely articulate at the same time, and the amount of sound that it creates from a small, compact enclosure is very impressive. However, I would have concerns about pairing it up with an 8 ohm CxL-112, as the CxL-112 has the higher power handling rating, but the 4 ohm Wizzy would be seeing twice the wattage as the CxL-112.
     
  8. mattwells

    mattwells

    Mar 19, 2003
    GA
    I do not understand about the efficiency differences (total lack of an engineering mind here) and I cannot find out the tech. specs on the VL 208. Anyone know where to get them? The reason I was thinking about the CXL-112 was because it handles down to 38Hz.
     
  9. Several upright players are using a Schroeder 1210 and they love the sound :)
     
  10. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    At one point, I found some information on the web (not from an official EA site), and as I recall, the specs for the VL-208 were as follows:

    freq. range: 40Hz to 15kHz
    efficiency: 95db (though I have seen figures as high as 97 db)
    power handling: 400 watts
    weight: 48 lbs
    size: 18.5" by 17.5" by 13.5"
     
  11. Scooperman

    Scooperman

    May 28, 2004
    Brooklyn, NY
    I have both a CXL-112 (actually the bottom part an iamp800)and a Schroeder 1210.

    I wouldn't say that the CXL-112 is that much more portable. Whatever the specs say, I can say from personal experience that the 1210, at the very least seems to me to be able to get much louder. If I had a lot more storage space and money I wouldn't sell any of my cabs, but as it is I'm probably selling the EA.

    Then again, I rarely play upright bass.
     
  12. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    How do they compare tonally and sound-wise?
     
  13. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Well there you go! Looks like you've really nailed it!

    I've noticed the cabs have really high power ratings - how much low frequency power can they actually handle before going into non-linear excursion?

    Alex
     
  14. Scooperman

    Scooperman

    May 28, 2004
    Brooklyn, NY
    Without going greatly into it (I'm saving that for the great Acme/EA/Schroeder Bass Cab Taste Test, to be conducted as soon as both SlinkP and I both find the time), I'll just say that the Schroeder tends to sound slightly less "refined" to me, with less delicate upper-mids, but a bit more robust and it projects that sound throughout the room really well, perhaps a bit better than the EA.

    I use EQ with the CXL-112 but none with the 1210 except when I'm playing at very low volumes (to compensate for the Fletcher-Munson effect)

    I'm able to get nasty harshness out of the EA's tweeter if I try, but it's nearly impossible for me to do that with the Schroeder, not that the 1210 doesn't sound clear up there, it just comes across as transparent.

    Another thing for me to mention is that the only clubs I've played with the 1210 so far are ones with notoriously lousy acoustics.

    I promise a more useful comparison afer the "Taste Test".
     
  15. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    JMO, but I think the 1010 or 410 Schroeders would sound great driven by a DB (especially if pushed by something like the AI Focus).
     
  16. Ericman197

    Ericman197

    Feb 23, 2004
    Iowa
    Fletcher Munson effect eh? I'm curious... does that go away when you crank the amp? Reason I ask is because when I played CDs through my Schroeder, as I might've mentioned in another post, the lows weren't there at all. I had to hit the bass boost on the CD player to get them. However, I was driving the cabs with ridiculously low amounts of wattage, and I'm used to using the bass boost anyway. If I were to, say, put a 1210 in my driveway and crank it with a few hundred watts of power, would my ears detect a deeper sound? I do believe my neighbors would kill me despite the huge distance between our houses, so if I'm going to test this, it needs to be worth it. I'm thinking... Macarena :hyper:

    For the record, this perceived lacking of bass does not occur when playing bass guitar, only when using CDs. My Acme, on the other hand, has a full lowend without any bass boosts, BUT, I needed to crank it to levels far exceeding it's maximum rated wattage to get a decent volume level.
     
  17. Scooperman

    Scooperman

    May 28, 2004
    Brooklyn, NY

    Fletcher Munson effect will cause the bass, and to a lesser extent the highs, to seem diminished in comparison to the mid-range at low volumes. The effect exists everywhere. Have you seen home stereos with a "loudness" control on them? That's there to compensate for the effect by boosting the lows and a little bit of the highs when using the stereo at low volumes.

    That's what I used the EQ to compensate for. At gig volumes, I didn't use it because there was all the bass I needed and then some.

    The main reason I mention taking the cab to a big room is that the 12' by 12' confines of the room where I keep the 1210 simply isn't big enough to give the bass frequencies a chance to bloom, as well as the fact that cranking the amp in that room, which is in my apartment, would cause my neighbors to appear at my door like the villagers from Frankenstein.

    It sounds like taking your cab to your driveway would give you at least one pitchfork weilding neighbor. There's a limited amount of goodwill that neighbors have for this sort of thing. I wouldn't want to use any of it up for anything less than a full scale kegger complete with several bands, a stage and PA. :D
     
  18. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Just for kicks, I broke out my CxL-112, Wizzy, and one of my VL-208's and played around with them a bit. The Wizzy and the CxL-112 actually do pair up pretty well, with the CxL-112's additional SPLs making up somewhat (volume-wise) to the extra amp power that the Wizzy is drawing at 4 ohm. If you weren't going to crank them too loud, they actually might work well together, as the Wizzy adds some nice midrange warmth and depth that the CxL-112 lacks, to a certain degree. So, my apologies, Alex! You may be onto something!

    After playing through the two 1x12's, I hooked up the VL-208, and as usual, I got a real big smile on my face! Not to take anything away from Jorg's cabs (which I am sure are stellar), EA really hit the nail on the head with the VL-208. Its Achille's heel, if it has one, is its relative inefficiency. But, a PLX 3002, or an iAMP 800, tend to make this somewhat of a moot point. Anyhow, tonally, the VL-208 is much deeper, smoother, more full, and more natural sounding than the CxL-112. The Wizzy is closer to the sound of the VL-208. If you can control the relative volumes, then a VL-208 and the CxL-112 actually complement each other fairly well. If you cannot, though, the CxL-112 definitely is the dominant voice.

    Later, Tom.
     
  19. Scooperman

    Scooperman

    May 28, 2004
    Brooklyn, NY
    I have to say, much as I like the CXL-112, when paired with an iamp800 that is tweaked whichever way satisfies me, I prefer somewhat the tone of my VL-110.
     
  20. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    I totally agree. And if you like the VL-110, you'll love the VL-208! :D Do you have just one? I find that two, or better yet three, of the smaller VL cabs are notable improvements (even more so than with other cabs). I know have three VL-208's, three VL-110's, and two VL-210's. Maybe I should try one more VL-210? :bassist:
     



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