Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Schroeder versus similar cabinets

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by kLumick, Mar 1, 2006.


  1. kLumick

    kLumick

    Apr 4, 2004
    I bought an 8 ohm Aguilar GS212 to power my Eden WT-330 head. The head ended up way underpowering it and it clipped far too much so I'm getting rid of it. I'm looking for a similar speaker arrangement but 4 ohm this time. I'm thinking the Schroeder 1210 would sound good because it's so loud for it's size, although I've heard it sounds best in a band situation. I play alot with only a Drummer or a Pianist and I'm thinking maybe another cabinet with a different voicing would work, the WT-330 puts out about 330 watts at 4 ohms. The cabinet would have to be pretty efficient cause I play 100+ rock gigs maybe 4 times a year. not that big but theres loud drummers around here and even louder guitarists. can ya guys help me decide there's so many companies and cabinets. zac

    p.s I've been wondering if a 15" speaker would be punchy and loud enough with a guitarist and drummer?
     
  2. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001

    Jun 17, 2004
    Ireland
    The problem here is not the cabinet as such but the amount of power your using. at 8ohms your amp isn't putting out a huge amount of power. I think you might be better either getting a second cabinet there by increasing your power and speaker area. Or getting an amp that will put out alot more power on 8ohms. even with efficient cabs 330 watts isn't a huge amount so I reckon double up on the cabinets and get something that will put at least 600 watts into them but preferably a whole lot more. But thats just my opinion.
     
  3. kLumick

    kLumick

    Apr 4, 2004
    I don't need another cab though. I'm planning on buying a new 4 ohm cabinet and selling the aggie. I gotta keep it real small.
     
  4. dave_bass5

    dave_bass5

    May 28, 2004
    London, UK.
    Ive just started to use my ABM300 EVOII with a 4ohms 1210 and it sounds good both at home and on stage although i need different EQ settings for each.
    im not sure im under powering (Jorg said it would be fine) but then im not sure what under powering it means.
    Does it mean that i should be running around 500watts in to it for it to sound good? if so does this mean that higher powered cabs are not ideal for lower powered heads?
    I understand that if i have the amp turned up high so that it starts clipping it could damage the speaker though.
    most of my gigs dont need a lot of volume so would the 1210 be unsuitable for me?
    Thanks for any help
     
  5. the dude

    the dude Supporting Member

    Sep 19, 2004
    Indy
    Good? Subjective. Better? Yes. For the best sound, ideally the head should have 2x the power rating of the cab.
    Yep.
    Aside from the sound, that is the biggest prob with an underpowered cab. You crank the amp to get more juice and it blows the speakers when it clips.
    No. It's a matter of personal preference/taste.
     
  6. dave_bass5

    dave_bass5

    May 28, 2004
    London, UK.
    Ok
    Thanks for clearing that up.
    so i guess that the 1210's and 1212's and bigger are not ideal for smaller gigs. I do like the sound of the 1210 though and for me its fine at this volume.
    Im thinking of getting a power amp so i do have more power going in to the 1210 but i wont really be able to go much louder at most of the gigs because of the size of the venue etc. i will have more head room though so wont clip the amp
     
  7. the dude

    the dude Supporting Member

    Sep 19, 2004
    Indy
    Nothing wrong with using a cab that can handle more than the gig calls for. Some gear sounds better when it "opens up." The Schroes are like that (from my experience, anyway) - but that's not to say you won't like their sound at lower volumes.

    The bigger poweramp will give you better sound at low volumes - but as you aren't pushing the amp regardless, clipping shouldn't be an issue.
     
  8. I think running a 1210 or 1212 with 300 watts should be fine for small gigs... the Schroeders are very efficient, so you get more sound for your watts, I've even powered my 310212 with my my SWR 200 watt head, which was plenty loud for home or soft practice! As long as you are not pushing the amp to it's limits, in which case you should get a bigger head... it all depends on the volume you need?
     
  9. dave_bass5

    dave_bass5

    May 28, 2004
    London, UK.
    Thanks and yes i can see what you are saying.
    Im not actually complaining about my sound or think there is anything wrong with it.
    I would say that all of my gigs need the master at least 12-1 o'clock and i guess at that volume im starting to loose the clean sound. i do tend to hold back on the volume at gigs because of this so having more headroom would make a huge difference and i guess i would turn up a bit more. although i dont get drowned out it would be nice to fill the room with a clean, punchy sound
     
  10. The 1210 sounds great at low volumes and doesn't need a lot of power. The combination of the Schroeder design, the high efficiency and the 4ohm impedance will give you a much higher volume output than you current cab, and in my opinion, the 1210 has nicer mids that can sound very nice for your situation. The 1210 really matches up well with the Eden voicing also.

    Another great cab is the EA NL210... more midrange warmth than the 1210, and they are now shipping a 4 ohm version. However, IMO the NL210 would fall somewhere between the 1210 and your current cab regarding volume. Very nice though.
     
  11. uglybassplayer

    uglybassplayer

    Aug 24, 2001
    New Jersey
    :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  12. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    There's no inherent problem with running a smaller head into a cab rated for more power. As has been said over and over here, that, *in and of itself*, poses absolutely no threat to the cab or the amp. (Which is not to say there aren't situations where damage could occur. There are. But there are also situations where you get damage with the bigger-amp-smaller-cab setup.)

    The idea of underpowering the cab has little or no meaning. What is important is whether you are underpowered for your playing situation. You want to have more amp than you actually need to get the tone and volume you want. Just as when you drive on the freeway, you don't want your cruising speed to be the same as the car's top speed. You want some power in reserve, or headroom.

    If you have enough power for your gig, it doesn't matter at all whether your cab is half your amp's rating, the same, or twice the rating, as long as it can handle the percentage of the amp's power that you're using.

    As for the original poster's question, why not get a bigger amp, like a WT800 if you like Eden? Or maybe one of those new MarkBasses (keeping in mind the need to stay light)? If you're clipping, it's not your cab doing it, it's your amp. It's a sign you've run out of power. A 4 ohm cab will get you a bit more power, but quite possibly not as much as you're hoping for. And if by chance the 4 ohm cab is less efficient than your Ag was (which it may or may not be), you may end up with *less* volume, not more. And another thing: the tone you're trying to get can affect your power usage and thus your perceived volume in some cases. For example, suppose you like a lot of low end, but you go to a cab that's a tad bass shy. You'll likely have to push up the bass EQ to get the tone you want, and bass frequencies eat up amp power much more than treble frequencies do. So your amp may still run out of gas fairly early, because it's trying to reproduce an unusually large amount of bass.

    I'm not trying to discourage you, or claiming the Schroeder would be a bad idea, just saying you have to look at the whole picture.
     
  13. dave_bass5

    dave_bass5

    May 28, 2004
    London, UK.
    Richard
    Thanks for that long explanation and i fully understand what you are saying. i think i did before but i keep seeing people saying they are under powering their cab and i just couldnt figure out why they would say that. i can understand that the more power going in to a speaker will make the speaker sound different, and also the louder you go the more low end you would get (or feel i guess) with the same EQ setting but i havent seen any specs to say what the minimum input should be so i couldnt figure out how i could be underpowering the cab
    My 1210 sounds fine and its at the volume i need but what i couldnt understand is the term "under powering" rather than the meaning if that makes sence.
     
  14. Hey guys,
    I have a Schroeder 1210 that I use for quiet and loud gigs. You're right, it does sound best in a live environment, especially the loud ones. The Schroeder can really compete with any loud instrument on stage.

    If you are not playing that many loud gigs, how about keeping the Eden head and getting a Shroeder mini12+ (+ means w/ a horn)? That will be a small footprint for the trio work, but it will also have some volume for the more rockin' gigs.

    I mate my Schroeder with an SWR SM-500. Yes, the Shroeder can handle about 400 more watts with ease, but I rarely turn the amp up higher than about 1/3 output. And it never farts. It sounds great!:D
     
  15. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    I had a guy come over to try out my 1210 with his Eden 330 head. He also had a Lakland 5594 bass so you know. It was extremely loud, sounded great to my ears, and did not distort the speakers whatsoever. I think everyone here has a good and worthwhile opinion be it technically, theory, or practical based.

    The bottom line is that for it's size and weight, these cabinets are louder, could be lighter, especailly the new L versions, similar priced, higher wattage capacity, lower frequency response, punchier/clearer than most all other cabs its size.

    Regarding your head, I don't feel you'd be underpowering a 1210 or 1212 at all with your Eden head. I just personally ordered, after I heard the above bassist's head through my bottoms (I have a 410 too), an Eden 550. Granted it has a little more wattage, but it's still small. My current head has 600 watts is very light, and I've not been close to it's limit.

    I think once you've heard how your Eden sounds with a 4 ohm Schroeder, you may not necessarily have to make ANY changes to your head too, and if you do, it's not gonna need their top of the line 800B or 1205 to get the extra volume/headroom you may OR MAY NOT NEED.

    Maybe you oughtta try the Schroe 1212 as a direct comparison to the Aggie 212. Pay the extra few bucks and try the 1212 L which only weighs 35 or so pounds. You'll flip how it sounds for being so much smaller a cab than your Aggie. Also, the 1212 is not what I'd call as "mellow" sounding. It's aggressive and has an edge to it so even in a small room, lighter volume setting, you can more easily be heard with slightly less volume. The Aggie's tend to lack the punchiness in addition to not being as efficient as the Schroeders (more perceptable volume at the same amp settings).

    Good luck.

    LKaye
     
  16. kLumick

    kLumick

    Apr 4, 2004

    I'm just saying it would have to be relatively loud.
     
  17. the dude

    the dude Supporting Member

    Sep 19, 2004
    Indy
    yah, I was confused too. How can you play 100+ gigs 4 times? 25 gigs a night??

    I think he meant 100+ people at 4 gigs a year...
     
  18. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    Four 100+ dB gigs?
     
  19. BigWave

    BigWave

    Jan 12, 2004
    Salinas CA
    Try A Berg. 322. I used a friends with my SWR Bass350 and was blown away. I set it to my usual gain/master settings and decided to turn it down. The lead player sort of freaked. "You gonna play that loud?" I told him only if I need to.

    This was on a big stage with 300+ audience but I was in the PA too.
     
  20. kLumick

    kLumick

    Apr 4, 2004
    Thanks for all these replies you guys, yeah I was really tired when I wrote all this out and I meant 100+ people ha.