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Selecting speakers by volume?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by foetus66, Jul 18, 2012.


  1. foetus66

    foetus66

    Feb 11, 2010
    PDX
    OK, so I need to put some speakers in this unloaded 2x10 cab which I intend to use alone as my primary bass speaker.. and I'm having a little trouble pulling the trigger on some of these expensive drivers without fully understanding whether they are a good match for the cab.

    It's a Carvin V210 cab -- I have found multiple instances online which refer to this model as a "vented" cab, saying that it is vented in the rear. I'm pretty sure I understand what that means, but from what I can tell the cab is not vented anywhere, but rather, totally sealed. So I must have a different version of the cab, yeah? So basically I'm throwing out everything I've read on the thing and starting from scratch

    From what I've gleaned so far, I can use WinISD to reverse engineer the cab to determine whether a speaker is a good match, based on the internal volume. I have tinkered with the program a bit but have yet to figure out how to do anything in that direction -- it seems to be designed for building a cab based on the speaker's specs rather than the other way around. I did measure the dimensions from the inside when I last had the grill off, which are 12.5" x 12.5" x 23.5".

    I don't know whether I also need to make adjustments based on other factors (such as the insulation material lining the internal walls, or the recessed handle that takes up a little bit of space inside) or if those numbers are close enough to get what I need out of them..

    As a side-note, I have an opportunity to get a decent price on a pair of Deltalite II 2510 drivers, though a decent price on these is still pretty dang expensive at this point. I'd definitely like to shave some weight off the thing with some neo drivers, but finding a good match for sound purposes is my primary objective. I'll be powering it with 200 watts @ 4 ohms.

    Thanks for any thoughts you care to share!
     
  2. At 2.12 cu.ft it is too large for a sealed Deltalite II 2510 single cab. Eminence lists the max volume for sealed cab use of 1.2 cu.ft for two drivers. You could add ports "vents" as 1.2 to 2.8 cu.ft would be required for a vented cab. Use the specs and adjust the cab size then you can pick the ports "vents".
     
  3. foetus66

    foetus66

    Feb 11, 2010
    PDX
    OK then, two questions--
    First off, am I right in assuming then that most any 10" bass drivers will be a fine match for the cab, provided that I add the appropriate ports? And that porting it is essentially a way to virtually adjust the perceived internal volume?
    Secondly, is there a way to find drivers that are a good match for the cab as is, based on the current internal volume? An can WinISD be useful for this purpose?

    Thanks again!
     
  4. For the commercial release of Deltalite 2510-II:

    Flat vented: 2.12 cubic feet, tuned 51 Hz
    BB4 vented: 1.48 cubic feet, tuned 53 Hz
    SQB3 vented: 2.05 cubic feet, tuned 51 Hz

    B2 sealed: 1.01 cubic feet, not recommended due to EBP=118
    D2 sealed: 2.09 cubic feet, not recommended due to EBP=118

    The above is for each driver.
    For a pair, double the box requirements.

    For your 2.1 cubic feet box, the only precise volume match is with the B2 sealed alignment.
    This is not recommended because the EBP parameter of the 2510-II is above 100 (118).
    Sealed box drivers should ideally have EBP around 50.

    In your situation, I would use the BB4 alignment and completely stuff the box with Fiberfill.
    This will get you pretty close.
     
  5. Wes Whitmore

    Wes Whitmore

    Mar 10, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    That 2.2 ft looks like a decent match for a pair of the S2010's. If that cab really is sealed, thats better. Cut whatever hole you want for the vent, and put it where you want it. Good luck!
    Wes
     
  6. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    Which WinISD version are you using? The "pro" version is the only one that's actually useful.
     
  7. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Erm....little more to it than that.

    Basslites may work alright sealed though. Kicker is the lower thermal rating in a 4ohm box, unless he wired them for 16ohms.

    Edit: nevermind that last part. 200 watt amp would work well with them.

    OP, later tonight, I could run WinISD and give you a size/length of pipe to port it with. Give you a couple different tunings depending on driver selection. Porting it with pipes would be cheap and fairly easy.
     
  8. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Well, you are right about the location, but just cutting a hole in the box almost always results in too high a tuning. They'll unload and fart on the low notes and could possibly blow drivers.
     
  9. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Meh, spoke too soon. EBP on the 10" basslites is even higher, I was thinking of the 12's, so, ported it is.
     
  10. Wes Whitmore

    Wes Whitmore

    Mar 10, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    That speaker only works in ported.
    I didn't say put whatever port in there you wanted...you will need to calculate that before putting the hole where you want it to be.
     
  11. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Got it, I took that the wrong way.
     
  12. I like the S2010s, and own several.
    They work great within their operating parameters.
    However, 21 volts / 55 watts / Flat is the power limit down to 50 Hz for linear operation within Xmax.

    21 volts translates to about 114 SPL at 1 meter.
    This is sufficient for my keyboards in a restaurant/bar, but completely anemic for larger venues.
    The nice part is 0.94 cubic feet per driver.
    Two of these in 3/8" baltic is about 24 pounds.
     
  13. Wes Whitmore

    Wes Whitmore

    Mar 10, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Add another 6db for the second driver? I assume any 2x10 is going to be used as a self monitor or low spl gig with only 200 watts on tap.
     
  14. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 11, 2008
    the Cali Intergalctic Mind Space
    Song Surgeon slow downer software- full 4 hour demo
    For the cab gurus: Do you have to subtract anything from the inside measurements to get the proper volume?
     
  15. Wes Whitmore

    Wes Whitmore

    Mar 10, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    No guru, but...subtract everything!
     
  16. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Not a guru here either, but, +1

    Have to find the volume of open air in the cab. Subtract cab bracing, ports, the basket/magnet assembly of the driver itself, etc. A couple cubic inches taken up by a handle cup or something is one of those things you'll never hear the difference, but, "net volume" means open air space.
     
  17. Yep.
    You get another +6dB when the 2nd driver is wired in parallel.

    All you really need for 2x S2010 is 110 clean watts (21v) into 4 ohms.
    Anything more, and it drives the S2010 into distortion.
     
  18. Party with 60 in a room big enough for 150, bluesy rock, 2x10 is plenty enough for the dancers and loud enough to push the conversation to the back.

    2x10 is a great monitor when there's a PA to do the real work, provided the rest of the band is on the same page. "Quietly" rocking hard gives clean rocking hard sound out front.
     
  19. foetus66

    foetus66

    Feb 11, 2010
    PDX
    I'm thinking the S2010s are a little more pricey than I want. Is it just my faulty memory or does it seem like Eminence neodymium drivers have almost doubled in price just in the last year or two?

    I want quality drivers, but I really want to keep the whole project under $200... The BP102 drivers always seem popular, and fit my budget.... but I'm still not sure how to do the math to see if they will fit or how to port it. I do not have the "pro" version of WinISD. Am I wasting my time trying to do this with the free one?
     
  20. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    The Pro version is free. ;)

    I've been liking the Windows 7 compatible version, available here.
     

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