Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by BigBohn, Jul 29, 2002.

  1. Billy club/kubaton

    1 vote(s)
  2. Night stick/baton

    3 vote(s)
  3. Stun gun/baton

    0 vote(s)
  4. Knife (switchblade, non-auto, etc.)

    12 vote(s)
  5. Brass knuckle or other punching weapon

    3 vote(s)
  6. Firearm (BB pellet, plastic pellet, metal bullet, etc.)

    18 vote(s)
  7. Pepper spray/tear gas

    5 vote(s)
  8. Don't need anything fancy, I got my fists

    34 vote(s)
  9. I'm not that paranoid to even be thinking about self-defense

    37 vote(s)
  1. BigBohn


    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    Who carries or owns a weapon for self-defense? Do you think you need one? Have you ever been attacked and wished you had a weapon, or have you had a weapon and used it on the attacker and were thankful you had a weapon?

    As TB member "grunge" would say, another "pool" for you guys.
  2. Well I was in a fistfight a coule of years ago, this redneck jumped me... It was o.k. until i knocked him out, and his 10-15 friends decided to join in on the fun. I ran my *ss of... Since then I always carry a knife, first a Glock Field Knife , but it was to heavy, now a Spyderco Native II. I never leave home without it, and I find it very useful for everyday tasks, i.e. opening stuff...
  3. FretNoMore

    FretNoMore * Cooking with GAS *

    Jan 25, 2002
    The frozen north
    There's only one way and that's to walk or run away from a fight.

    It's incredibly stupid in my humble opinion to carry weapons. When you become scared or upset you may not have any thought about the consequences of bringing out a knife or gun. You might maim a person for life or kill him or her, and then you will have to live with that the rest of your life. Better not have any weapons in the first place.
  4. Ívar Þórólfsson

    Ívar Þórólfsson Mmmmmm... Supporting Member

    Apr 9, 2001
    Kopavogur, Iceland
    IMHO if you absolutely HAVE to carry a weapon of some sorts, I think it would be best to go with some sort of pepper spray. It hurts like a SOB for a while, but no permanent damage to the receiver in the end of the day.
  5. BigBohn


    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    I fully agree with you that the best solution is to walk or run away from a fight. But hence comes the meaning of "self-defense." Once all options of deferring a fight from evolving to physical measures, one can only use a weapon to subdue an attacker. It's your life or his. I am opposed to using knives, guns, etc., or any weapon that physically harms the person by bleeding. That is just wrong. BUT I do condone using stun guns/batons and pepper spray/tear gas to subdue an attacker because they will have better and safer effects on the attacker, long-term. Plus they are quicker and you won't get in trouble with the law with them, if used under the correct circumstances.

    I don't know about overseas, but the law about self-defense in the US is to run or walk away from a criminal confrontation. Once you've run so much away, you have no option but to defend yourself. This all depends if the person is just using his fists to get you or he's got a gun. The law clearly dictates that you can use lesser or equal force to subdue an enemy. So, if he's got a pencil and he's wanting to kill you, you can't use a gun and kill him. But if he's got a gun, you can use a gun, only once he's fired at you once, or something like that.

    The law further explains about intruders in your home or dwelling. There is NO rule to run away from an attacker to defer a fight once it is in your home. If the attacker is in your home, you cannot run away, so you CAN use any force to subdue an attacker, once that attacker has displayed reasonable intent to injure/kill you or anyone in your house. Killing is always a last resort, anyways.
  6. lowb


    Jul 27, 2000
    London, UK
    I gots me a couple of mighty fine Angels taking care of my skin :cool:

    *Gangster mafia voice on* You mess with me, you mess with my Family *Gangster mafia voice off*

  7. Josh Ryan

    Josh Ryan - that dog won't hunt, Monsignor. Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 24, 2001
    You need an inflatable Richard Simmons, carry that around all day and people will assume your insane. No one will bother you. OK, maybe they'd shoot you from a distance.
  8. lowb


    Jul 27, 2000
    London, UK
    Unfortunately not charlie's :(

    ;) Peace
  9. FretNoMore

    FretNoMore * Cooking with GAS *

    Jan 25, 2002
    The frozen north
    The general opinion on weapons and self-defense is miles apart if you compare Sweden and the U.S. Here it is illegal to even carry a knife in a public place. People don't have guns in their homes, and shooting an intruder is not a "right" you Americans may feel you have. Even in your home I say the best tactic is to run away. What's some stolen goods compared to your life? Different cultures, I know, so it may not be possible to come to any agreement on this issue.

    I understand it's easier for me to say "no weapon" as I live in a less violent society, but I still believe it is a good stand even in the U.S. to not carry weapons. Having a weapon brings a false sense of security, and may also make you feel inclined to actually use it - you have so to speak already half made your mind up to not walk away from the fight. No weapon and your only option is to leg it.

    A person attacking you will also in most cases be much more used to fighting than you are, probably also high on something, and more inclined to use dirty fighting techniques that you have no defences against...
  10. ZuluFunk

    ZuluFunk Supporting Member

    Apr 14, 2001
    Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh Please oh

    Please don't start a flame war on this topic yet again!!!!

    Pretty please.
  11. BigBohn


    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    Sure, Zulu.

    Anders, I'm not one of the trigger-happy gun-totin' Americans you might think we all are over here. I resort to violence as a last resort. That is what the premise of this poll and thread was, and thats all. Not morals or anything like that.

    If your life was seriously in danger from an attacker that broke into your house and wanted to kill you or your loved ones, wouldn't you fight back?
  12. You are making too many assumptions here, IMO. I particularly think your last paragraph is completely wrong. I can only speak for myself, of course, but my personal experience pretty much differs from your statements.

    If I'm packing a pistol, I'm about as safe as I can possibly be. I will say, however, that if you go this route you better know what you are doing and know when and when not to use deadly force or you'll end up in a world of trouble. (its still better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.)

    I don't rely on anyone to protect me but me. A majority of the police that I have known or worked with have an unsatisfactory level of skill in the use of their firearms, IMO. My observations of local, state, and federal qualifications are my benchmark for this. I will qualify all of this by saying I was a U.S. Law Enforcement Officer for several years and a certified firearms instructor for that same agency so I have something to base my opinions on.

    I do agree that its best to avoid bad situations. However, you may someday find yourself in a situation that you can't escape and your life may be on the line. On that day your opinions may change.

    BTW BigBohn, your understanding of the "law of self-defense in the US" is completely wrong. Its easier to understand the use of deadly force along these lines...if you (or someone else) are under the threat of serious bodily injury or death you can use deadly force to protect yourself. To be under that threat you generally need three things...the bad guy has to have the means, opportunity, and intent to inflict this upon you. I'm sure a lawyer can give you a more detailed explanation but this is how I was trained and the conditions I worked under.

    I don't know where you came up with this:
    "So, if he's got a pencil and he's wanting to kill you, you can't use a gun and kill him. But if he's got a gun, you can use a gun, only once he's fired at you once, or something like that."

    That's just flat out wrong, dude.
  13. FretNoMore

    FretNoMore * Cooking with GAS *

    Jan 25, 2002
    The frozen north
    Well, as I said, people will never agree on this issue.

    Peace. :)
  14. I agree with you there. Ultimately we are all responsible for our own actions. If you make a decision that you are comfortable with, that's all that matters.
  15. BigBohn


    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    1. Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument, even if it isn't loaded or you never intend to use it.

    2. The amount of force that you use to defend yourself must not be excessive under the circumstances.

    Never use deadly force in self-defense unless you are afraid that if you don't, you will be killed or seriously injured;
    Verbal threats never justify your use of deadly force;
    If you think someone has a weapon and will use it unless you kill him, be sure you are right and are not overreacting to the situation.
    3. Unless the castle doctrine applies, you must do everything possible to retreat before using deadly force, no matter who started the fight.

    4. The law permits you to carry a concealed weapon for self- defense. Carrying a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman or a "good samaritan". "


    I may be wrong, but I know the general guidelines to self-defense. My father is a criminal attorney in S. Florida, and has been doing it for 25 years. I think I have a good backing of the general circumstances of the law, but apparently I posted it incorrectly. I stand corrected by what you said.

    edit: typographical error
  16. Remember this: you generally have to make a split-second decision whether or not to use deadly force. There is simply no time to get into a lengthy legal debate or go down through a thousand "what ifs" when your butt is on the line.

    The guidelines I was taught serve under real life conditions. However, I'm in no way implying anyone should use that post as their legal standard for self-defense...I have the luxury of being taught this stuff as a Federal Agent. If I ever get hauled into a court cause I blasted a bad guy in self-defense I'm going to refer right back to what I was trained, how I was trained, where I was trained, and by whom I was trained. I would encourage anybody who would want to carry a weapon to go get trained themselves and understand the laws in their particular state.

    Having a father such as yours affords you a great opportunity to learn all the nuances of the laws in your invaluable resource.

    You do make a good point. A lot of people who carry weapons don't realize the legalities of when they can use them and the ramifications if they do use them.
  17. BigBohn


    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    Thats all it comes down to. The law doesn't even go through the minds of the people being attacked, most of the time, so its all reaction and ramifications of the actions will have to be delt with later.

    And you made a good statement in your previous post. It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
  18. Angus

    Angus Supporting Member

    Apr 16, 2000
    Palo Alto, CA
    This is why I'm in martials arts. If I can't get an attacker to back off vocally, I know how to protect from his attack and how to attack him, but I would do so ONLY enough to get him on the ground so I could have a chance to run.

    Before any of that, if I thought I'd have the chance, I would just bolt.

    I can see people carrying around pepper spray if they didn't know how to fend off an attacker, but in the heat of the moment they may not be able to rumage through their purse or pocket fast enough. It is effective, however.

    To answer your questions directly, I have trained fists and trained feet. Fists to temporarily disable if necessary, and feet to run!

    Edit: Use of deadly force to be avoided at almost any cost. If you can't avoid it, you can't avoid it, but generally if you break their leg at the knee joint they aren't coming back at you. Objective is to remove their weapon and keep them from attacking further! Never leave their weapon in their hands!
  19. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    It's illegal to carry a firearm for self-defence in Germany and I totally agree with that. In fact I think the gun laws here should be even stricter.
    I've never been in a situation that was in any way dangerous (in fact I don't know anybody personally who ever was), and the probability that I will be in the future is very, very small.
  20. Cool. The Germans make fine firearms, btw. I have a couple Sig Sauers myself.