Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Technique [BG]' started by tpmiller08, Mar 31, 2009.
Mozart didn't have to practice or learn how to read music or learn how to score for an orchestra?
hey man yeh of course he had to learn it
jks - jokes, aka kidding
probs a pretty bad joke
Oh, sorry...thought jks was your initials. You kids and your internet slang
Have you ever seen those programs about young "special" people who literally are born with it? The parents say, yeah, he literally sat down at the piano at age 3 and started playing Bach. And the family has no musical interests.
I'm sure he had to hear it somewhere first. But these are kids who can barely talk, let alone work with an instructor. And they're extremely rare, too, so I'm certainly not saying it's normal. But it is amazing.
Self-taught is just another way of saying, "I didn't use a teacher" Of course I looked stuff up, of course I watch every bassist I see at shows to see their different styles up close.
The one thing I don't get is how everyone can assume I'd be better if I had a teacher. Has anyone here heard me play?
I mean sure, more then 95% of 'Self-Taught' bass players have some serious flaws in their playing. But if I can take what I learn, see it applied in others songs, and figure out a different way to apply it myself....why would I need a teacher.
I know I have good technique, I practice it everyday. I know I have solid timing, I practice it everyday. I know I can play in a band full of people that took lessons, and sound tight.....I do it....only 3 times a week lol. But ya get my point.
If your OPINION is that people need a teacher, fine, everyone is entitled one. I know I don't need one. And it works for ME.
Everyones input is appreciated. But at some point, the original bass players (even before electric bass was invented in....1952? I think it was) someone had to figure this all out on their own. With no one teaching them. I'm not doing that, I'm learning a little bit from everybody to form my own style, and ****....it works....damn good.
If it didn't work, I wouldn't be in a band thats booked to headline a Boston gig in May......as our second show as a band.
Once again, I'm not putting down teaching, and it works for most. A bunch of self-taught ARE just too lazy to take lessons. And if they're too lazy to do that, then they are most likely too lazy to look up proper technique and to learn as much as possible to play by ear.
I just work best doing what I'm doing. I wish more people could understand that.
Hey, all we can do is inform you of what else is out there. It's up to you to take advantage of it or not. Either way you go, I hope it works out for you.
My two cents:
I almost completely agree with you, if the drive is there to learn and you have some common sense, then you could get pretty far just teaching yourself. I have only taken one bass lesson (countless lessons for guitar over the years, though), but the teacher pointed out a few things that he felt I was doing wrong. At first I didn't buy it, but as I started playing over the course of the next few months, I incorporated the things he mentioned and it has improved my playing vastly. One lesson.
Not to sound like a dick, but read Victor Wooten's book "The Music Lesson". I think you're against "lessons" per se, but you should never stop listening to people who know more than you. Every experience is a lesson (heck, reading these posts is a very huge lesson), if you take on a "I can do it all myself" attitude, you're just blocking out possible data that will help you improve faster than you already have and avoid developing bad habits that take years to correct.
By the way, if you don't have a metronome yet I strongly suggest you get one. Even the cheapest one made is better than none at all.
Honestly, you are wrong. I wasn't born with musical talent, but I was born with another talent (which I won't mention because I'm not trying to toot my own horn, just making a valid and factual point). At 4 years old I had abilities beyond children in junior high schools. I've never struggled with it, nor had to try very hard to develop my skills, it just comes totally naturally. BUT (!), I took classes for 7 years as a child and I went to college for it and I've worked in the field for 15 years learning from countless masters and other experts. Just having natural talent is not enough, it needs to be enriched with learning from outside sources.
The point is this: drop all traces of an ego and you will develop beyond your wildest dreams. I'm not saying anyone here is an egomaniac, but if you forget the concept of "self" and just absorb information from all people, you will develop on a much larger scale than you are now.
What'd I say?
Having a natural ability or inclination toward something is not the same as being born with an ability to do it. You don't just go to the piano directly from the womb and be able to play Bach (those stories you hear about kids who can do that are bunk IMHO). Nor is anyone born with the ability to read music. The best you can hope for at birth is a natural inclination toward it and an increased ability to learn it.
Success means you've somehow finished.
I disagree completely. Success can mean anything anyone wants. I busted his chops for celebrating a true success story a little prematurely and for overstating the level of his success, but the truth is he considers it a success so it is. I would totally bum out if I didn't have little successes to look forward to along the way of accomplishing a big success.
You're right. I misunderstood what you meant.
As a side note: how about that guy from England who is autistic and could draw amazing architectural renderings as soon as they put a piece of paper in front of him as a child? He literally drew an arial view of London after taking a 15 minute helicopter ride. It was a documentary from the BBC. Worth a look.
Oh sure, there are savants, most definitely. But even this guy had to learn how to hold a pencil before he could draw like that
Having trouble deciding how you feel about that, Jimmy?
Not at all. Read what I said a little closer. "He had to learn how to hold a pencil before he could draw like that." Are you born with the ability to hold a pencil? Yeah, it's a simple brainless activity, but at one point you had to learn of its existence and learn how to work it. To play a piano, you first have to know music exists, and you have to learn a piano exists and what it can do. Those who can play well straight away were just able to make sense of it quicker, but it's still very much a learned activity. I don't see where I said anything contradictory.
I read what you "said" and thoroughly understood it.
Either the notion of autistic savants is bunk, or it's not. You decide.
You don't like to be wrong much do ya?
I see a huge contradiction.....but if I say where, you'll just say it's wrong and wiggle out of it lol.
Put your ego down man, it's no biggie
Put down yours.
I see where JimmyM is going with this: you can't just pick something up and begin to play it, you need to have some reference point to begin. It's true, holding a pencil (for example) is not something instinctual. Have you ever seen a child hold a crayon the first few times?
At some point even the greatest musical geniuses had to be taught the most basic principles. You just need to accept that there is no way to fully learn (I stress the word "fully") without being taught. If you're against taking formal lessons, that's fine, but you have to accept the fact that something as simple as reading this forum is a lesson. Actually, I find it to be a great lesson. I started learning music way before the internet. I'm jealous of all these kids coming up now who can take advantage of this great learning tool and get advice from thousands of professionals on this forum. Don't neglect these tools just because you made progress by yourself. What do they say? "No man is an island unto himself".