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Separate EQ for IEM?

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by darwin-bass, Apr 23, 2019.


  1. darwin-bass

    darwin-bass Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2013
    Salem OR
    I usually run just a compressor. Feed that to my amp and FOH. Now that I'm moving to IEM, I find the bass sounds overly bright and I'm thinking I want something to EQ the bass for the in-ears.

    What do you use between the bass and your IEMs? SansAmp? EQ pedal? LPF?
     
  2. BassCliff

    BassCliff

    May 17, 2012
    So. Cal.
    Hi,

    I wouldn't EQ your bass signal too much before you send it to the house. The FOH guy is going to EQ your bass for the room anyway.

    The monitors are EQ'd at the monitor board, whether floor wedges or IEMs. If you're using digital boards there should be enough EQ on each input channel to get your bass to sound good in your ears. What IEM earbuds are you using?


    Thank you for your indulgence,

    BassCliff
     
    JPaulGeddy and s0c9 like this.
  3. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    We run a digital console, which has a split to the house. I EQ my bass to sound good to me, and let FOH do it's thing.
    IF we use the console to run FOH - provide an L/R feed - then I get the FOH bass tone. I CAN EQ the overall IEM mix, and can do that on both the feed going to my IEM transmitter or use the EQ on my beltpack receiver!
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  4. darwin-bass

    darwin-bass Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2013
    Salem OR
    Yes, I left out some details.

    My bass feeds DI to the Roland FOH mixer. I send a flat signal which the sound tech EQs for FOH. My IEM setup uses a Rolls personal mixer to combine a full mix from the FOH board with my bass. I can dial in more-me as I wish.

    My in-ears are low cost customs (Alclair) which sound good enough for monitor purposes but don't have the deep extension of good over the ear headphones or the FOH system.
     
  5. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011

    If FOH and the IEM mixes are generated from the same board you are often limited by the technology. Typically the aux sends are set pre EQ so audio tech can manipulate the sound for FOH and the IEM mixes are not impacted. Instead of using a regular DI you could use a preamp DI such as your Sansamp or cab sim such as an OmniCabSim. As long as you don't go to extreme with your EQ inputs this will work fine. You need to be mindful that any changes you make during the show impact all mixes derived from your DI send. So try to get your sound dialed in during sound check and leave it alone during the show. You can make minor changes for the various stylistic requirements of different tunes...for example if you switch pickups or otherwise change your tone from tune to tune. If you expect to make this sort of changes consider working them during sound check and giving the audio tech a set list with some notes, (which may or may not be used).

    Other options:
    1. Some IEM mixers, such as the Behringer P16-M, give each user separate EQ over all channels and also a global EQ. Of course these only work with certain Behringer consoles.
    2. Running dual layers on a digital board, like @s0c9 suggested, is also a good option. However, it tends to be labor intensive and a bit confusing. It's really only viable if you use the same audio tech and mixing console on a consistent basis. Here's how it works. Digital boards are typically organized into fader levels. For example, if you have a 32 channel board, 16 channels may be on the A fader layer and 16 channels may be on the B fader layer. So if you duplicate inputs 1-16 across both layers you can use layer A (channels 1-16) for FOH and layer B (channels 17-32) for monitors. But remember you are using the same inputs for both layers, so 17-32 is a duplicate of 1-16. This frees you up to run separate channel processing on each layer.
    3. Most digital mixer have EQ on each send output. The problem is this EQ is applied globally to your mix instead of just to your bass. This may be helpful in fattening up your low end a bit, but less helpful in tailoring your overall bass sound. Any tone sculpting you do will effect the guitar and vocals as well as your bass.
     
    n1as likes this.
  6. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011

    If you using a Rolls personal mixer such as a PM351, you could use a DI for FOH and send the DI's "Thru" output to the Rolls. Insert an EQ pedal between the DI and Rolls so you can apply EQ to your bass for your IEM mix without impacting the signal you send to FOH.
     
  7. QweziRider

    QweziRider Supporting Member

    Sep 15, 2008
    Northern Nevada, U.S.
    I use an MXR M-80. D.I. out to my two channel IEM transmitter, parallel (uneffected) out to FOH. Total control of what I want to hear of bass without bothering FOH/monitor land. Of course, they still have control over everything else I get in the other IEM channel, but at least I got bass control going for me.
     
  8. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    I don't know which Sansamp the OP has, but the RBI and RPM have dual outputs, one processed and one unprocessed. Drive and EQ is applied to the processed "Sansamp" output. The unprocessed output is basically a buffered thru from the bass. So as long you the OP does not need drive at FOH, it should be possible to use the Sansamp and get both a flat and EQ'ed signal to different locations.
     
    QweziRider likes this.
  9. fokof

    fokof One day ,I'll be in the future

    Mar 16, 2007
    Here
    Like other stated , dual layering is the perfect solution.
    I always do that as a soundman, gives you different compression / EQ / Gate / whatever than what is Through the L-R bus.

    ....or split your signal @ your DI , one for the FOH , one for the IEM and EQ your your IEM at your taste
     
    s0c9 likes this.
  10. darwin-bass

    darwin-bass Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2013
    Salem OR
    This is what I am doing using a ParaEQ pedal. I would like to have something different to free the ParaEQ for other uses.
     
  11. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    You could mush all feeds thru a small mixer, giving you EQ over each mix - before feeding into a PM351.
    [​IMG]
     
    n1as likes this.
  12. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    alpha-music.com
    What’s “low cost” in this context?

    Do they have a good seal and all that? I gotta think even lower-end custom molds will have a good representative low end.

    If so, then it may just be that you’re not generating an initial bass tone that you like that much and should tweak accordingly, if it sounds “good” in in-ears it should also sound good in FOH.

    Maybe run the DI from the amp’s post EQ out so as to get more “tone” into the signal.
     
  13. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    Does the 1002 have instrument level inputs? I know the 1002B has line and instrument level inputs on channels 1 and 2; so you can plug the thru from a DI in and have plenty of signal level.
    [​IMG]

    If your going to go this route, it's probably better to get a mic splitter instead of a PM351. That way you have gain and EQ for you bass and the vocal mic.
     
  14. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    idk.. was thinking it might be the less painful route to getting EQ into the mix, without impacting FOH. :)
     
    Wasnex likes this.
  15. darwin-bass

    darwin-bass Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2013
    Salem OR
    The IEMs are Alclair's at about $300. Yes, they seal well. Their low end goes down to 60 Hz but the overall response is subdued from midbass down so their sound is more clear than round.

    Our FOH needs all the brightness I can throw at it sp one tone does not fit all.

    I'm sort of liking the mixer idea. In fact it could replace the PM350 totally.
     
    Wasnex likes this.
  16. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    As long as you use a mixer with a instrument level input, you can use the thru from a regular DI. Most mixers do not have instrument level inputs though. You can either boost the signal to line level or use a line matching transformer so you can plug into a mic input. I have used Shure A95UF. A95UF - Line Matching Transformer (Female XLR to ¼” Male Plug/Female Jack)

    Here are a couple of examples of passive mic splitters, in case want to run your vocal mic through the mixer as well.
    JS2 - Radial Engineering
    ProMS2 - Radial Engineering
    SP1X2 AND SP1X3 MIC SPLITTERS - Catalog - Whirlwind
     
    n1as likes this.
  17. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    alpha-music.com
    why is that?

    is the FOH setup not adequate? is the guy not competent?

    i'm convinced that if one's own monitoring (amp, in-ears) is good quality and reasonably full-range then the bass EQ that works for the player's own monitoring will also be just fine for FOH, especially since FOH can still EQ it however is needed from there.

    for me it's a nice carl martin comp into a sansamp BDDI for a distinctively "rock" bass tone, i love how it sounds in my ears and soundguys all love it too.
     
    n1as likes this.
  18. darwin-bass

    darwin-bass Supporting Member

    Mar 29, 2013
    Salem OR
    Our gig is a church. Overall volume level in FOH is about 85 dB so bleed from the stage is a problem. It adds a level of mud that you can't overcome with the mains running low quiet. Add to that the reverb effects from a large room and you get mud.

    We're moving to IEM. Bass has already made the switch and the FOH tone is much better since there is no longer any bass bleed. Piano and drums still generate bass-masking mud however so we're not fully there yet. Without good clarity (highs) from the bass guitar, it is hard to distinguish the notes.

    Additionally, not all of our volunteer sound techs are, .... um .... equally capable. So what is sent from the bass is pretty important.
     
  19. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    alpha-music.com
    aha, problem #2.

    still, a "good" sound to start with should sound good in ears with no EQ and out front with reasonably little EQ. especially with in-ears, once you wrangle yourself a pleasing initial source sound at some point it becomes Not Your Problem™.
     
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    Primary TB Assistant

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    Apr 14, 2021

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