Seperate monitor mix solutions?

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by JonnnyC, Jul 18, 2020.


  1. JonnnyC

    JonnnyC

    Jan 25, 2018
    Hi all,

    Firstly - unsure if this is appropriate for a bass forum. Will remove if so, but I always find the quality of replies here, make it worth a try!

    I use a nice Allen and Heath mixing desk, though it only has a master volume for the line out to our in ear transmitter meaning, the only way to adjust the monitor mix is by also adjusting the FOH mix. This leads to time balancing between the PA and amps or just 'making do'.

    Are there any recommendations before I swap the desk for one that has a separate monitor mix?

    My only current thought is getting a smaller mixer that has that feature and individual channel line outs to create a chain. Though, feels easier just to get a new desk at that point.

    Thanks.
     
  2. filmtex

    filmtex Commercial User

    May 29, 2011
    Annsman Pro Audio Dealer
    What model A & H are you using. Kind of important for a good answer! I'm sure we all want to help. Help us help you. There's more than one way to get this done.
     
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  3. JonnnyC

    JonnnyC

    Jan 25, 2018
    I have just had an idiotic Eureka moment and realised it does in fact have an aux Channel with seperate volumes.

    I'm claiming a TB success for inspiration here ... Not me being incompetent ... Honest.
     
    JGbassman, SoCal80s, Clark W and 4 others like this.
  4. JohnMCA72

    JohnMCA72

    Feb 4, 2009
    I was going to say, it sounds like you're using the headphone out for your monitors & you should have some Auxes available. Tip: Use Pre-Fader Auxes for your monitors vs. Post-Fader so that changes to your FOH mix won't mess up your monitors.
     
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  5. DirtDog

    DirtDog

    Jun 7, 2002
    The Deep North
    And if you have more than one AUX out, you can have more than one monitor mix!
     
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  6. JonnnyC

    JonnnyC

    Jan 25, 2018
    Yeah in all honesty, I was using the Red/black split cable where it says monitor out - as that was the exact method/labelling on my last desk. Just had a 'mon level' dial.
     
  7. JonnnyC

    JonnnyC

    Jan 25, 2018
    I have the Aux out and FX out, so I could run the Aux out to an in ear system, and the FX to a speaker monitor simultaneously?
     
  8. DirtDog

    DirtDog

    Jun 7, 2002
    The Deep North
    Are you talking about the dedicated FX buss on the mixer - where that’s dedicated to mixing FX back into your channels before going to the main outs?
    What model A&H mixer are you using?
     
  9. JonnnyC

    JonnnyC

    Jan 25, 2018
    ZED60-14FX

    One of these, looks like aux/FX are the pre/post fade outputs mentioned?
     
  10. TheLowDown33

    TheLowDown33 Supporting Member

    Jul 4, 2009
    NJ
    With the mix in question, you could get 3 splits off the mixer between the FX, the aux and the headphone out. The phones out will either be a copy of the main mix or the aux mix, and the FX is post fader. Personally this does not seem like an intuitive setup for individual monitoring if that was your goal.
     
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  11. JonnnyC

    JonnnyC

    Jan 25, 2018
    Yeah, more out of interest than intent. One mix for all is usually sufficient.
     
  12. filmtex

    filmtex Commercial User

    May 29, 2011
    Annsman Pro Audio Dealer
    Actually, you could get three different monitor mixes.
    1: The AUX out- a mono send for either a monitor speaker or mono IEM- Pre Fader
    2: The FX out- as above though Post Fader
    and
    3: Split the Main Output and run FOH as a Mono system from one (L or R output) channel and another Mono send from the other channel using the Pan on each channel as a way to alter the mixes between the two L/R output channels. Again a Mono send, but Post fader. Like the FX out. A more complicated and difficult solution to master than a dedicated output, but in the long run a fairly good emergency output. YMMV
     
    JonnnyC likes this.
  13. DirtDog

    DirtDog

    Jun 7, 2002
    The Deep North
    In that case, you’re better off using the AUX mix/out for monitoring as opposed to the headphone out. That way you’re not constrained to using the main mix for your monitoring. But yeah, you’re limited to one AUX mix in the simplest of setups.
     
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  14. john_g

    john_g Supporting Member

    Sep 14, 2007
    Pennsylvania
    No no, listen you have to use something like this:
    external-content.duckduckgo.com.jpeg
     
    Skillet likes this.
  15. JonnnyC

    JonnnyC

    Jan 25, 2018
    Clearly that won't work, do they make them with UK plugs?
     
    walterw likes this.
  16. nilorius

    nilorius Inactive

    Oct 27, 2016
    Riga - Latvia
    More details, currently - no help.
     
  17. JonnnyC

    JonnnyC

    Jan 25, 2018
    Already answered anyway.
     
  18. TheLowDown33

    TheLowDown33 Supporting Member

    Jul 4, 2009
    NJ
    In my experience this is not the case. We run a digital mixer where everyone has their own mix and control of said mix. The difference between everyone's is pretty drastic.
     
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  19. JonnnyC

    JonnnyC

    Jan 25, 2018
    Yeah, but you'd get used to a shared mix quicker than you'd think! I can see the advantages, I'm sure ours would be different too, sufficient - not ideal. Being a 4 piece (Inc vocals only), we can all sit in the space quite nicely.
     
  20. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    You have fairly limited options with this mixer. The Aux is setup pre fader and the Effects Send is setup post fader, and I don't believe this can be changed. You can use the Effects Send to drive a speaker, but then you don't have descrete control for the built in Effects, and also the level will track with fader adjustement made for FOH (front of house) sound, which is undesirable.

    Ideally you want a stereo IEM mix. You current setup should give you this if you are building a stereo FOH mix. But it does not give you the ability to tailor the IEM mix and FOH mix seperately which is causing problem. You do have an Aux which can be used for a mono IEM mix. I believe you can actually try the Aux send without changing your wiring. You just need to reconfigure the board internally by pushing a few buttons.

    Take a look at the block diagram on page 14 of the manual (attached) and the output strip on page 24.

    Here is the output strip:
    upload_2020-7-18_16-50-3.png

    I believe if you put the Monitor Source button to the out position (Phones) and the select "Aux" from the (Phones Select) menu, that audio from the Aux will be routed through from Aux bus to the Monitor output. I believe you need to make sure all of the PFL/AFL switches are disenaged. Following the block diagram is fairly complicated so you may have to experiment and do some head scratching to figure it out...but the routing is there.

    The Aux Mix Level and Monitor Level will both affect the level coming from the Monitor out. It's probably not be a good idea to use this setup permanently as I believe the IEM mix will disappear if one of several buttons is accidentally changed. If everyone likes the mono IEMs run of the Aux, you can wire up an adapter to interface with the normal Aux output.

    Note there is also a control called FX to Aux that adjusts how much of the Effects are sent to the Aux bus. A bit of reverb can be beneficial to the vocalists, but keep in mind this is a global control. If you apply effects to other instruments, and then send the effects to the Aux send there is no way to limit the effects to just vocals. You will need to use discretion and judgment on the best compromise.
     

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    Primary TB Assistant

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