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Serious question for eBay experts, about bidding!!

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Bruce Lindfield, Oct 22, 2004.


  1. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    OK, so I'm not that keen on eBay as a symptom of what I see as increasing commercialism in society - but I've read a lot about it and it really seems to be taking off in the UK now! :meh:

    Anyway - to the question! So, I'm trying to buy a DB now and while I would never think of doing so via eBay, I have been checking through the related auctions there, to get an idea of the Market, prices etc.

    What stood out though, was that when I looked at the history of bids - in almost every case, there seems to be very strange behaviour. So - the same person, bidding several times in a row, with successively higher bids - maybe adding 50 - 100 £s in some cases!! :meh:

    So what is this all about? Is there are legitimate reason for a person doing this in an auction- I can't think of one, but then I'm not an experienced bidder like some people here? So - hence my question?

    Are these people just stoopid, being disruptive or are they trying to raise the price artificially to help a friend ? If the latter is the case - why isn't eBay doing anything about this? It was evident in just about every UK DB auction I looked at? :confused:
     
  2. The way Ebay works is you put in your maximum bid, and the site increases it automatically to match other prices offered.

    Like if you bid $100 when the auction is only at $1, the price will only raise to say $2 if there are no other bids... but as soon as someone else bids $75, the auction price jumps to $76 (still bid by the guy who originally offered $100). This might be what you're seeing.
     
  3. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    No - I know all about that - I specifically mean, when the same person bids 3 or 4 times in a row, with no other bids being made in between, increasing the bid each time!! :confused: Is there any legitimate reason to do this?
     
  4. Figjam

    Figjam

    Aug 5, 2003
    Boston, MA
    What may appear as the person bidding several times, increasing, may not be what you think it is.

    What probably happened is that someone had a high bid, say the person bid.... 200, yet it only shows up as 85 because the next highest bid was only 84. The person may bid 90 because he thinks the person with the current highest bid only bid 85 (maybe they dont know how ebay works) OR they dont want to bid really high, they just want to go up in increments until they have the hgihest bid. They may have to bid 90, 110, 120, 150, 180, 210, beefore they finally have the highest bid.
     
  5. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    So here are just a couple of examples:

    User ID Bid Amount Date of bid

    bootlegbuddy ( 0 ) £290.00 20-Oct-04 01:28:46 BST


    bootlegbuddy ( 0 ) £280.00 20-Oct-04 01:26:28 BST


    bootlegbuddy ( 0 ) £270.00 19-Oct-04 00:54:26 BST


    bootlegbuddy ( 0 ) £260.00 19-Oct-04 00:52:59 BST


    and another :

    User ID Bid Amount Date of bid

    thecameron0 ( -1 ) £160.00 17-Oct-04 13:55:56 BST


    thecameron0 ( -1 ) £150.00 17-Oct-04 13:50:21 BST


    thecameron0 ( -1 ) £100.00 17-Oct-04 13:49:56 BST


    thecameron0 ( -1 ) £64.00 17-Oct-04 13:49:41 BST


    thecameron0 ( -1 ) £60.00 17-Oct-04 13:49:10 BST


    thecameron0 ( -1 ) £55.00 17-Oct-04 13:48:45 BST


    and another (!!) :



    User ID Bid Amount Date of bid

    bassmike712 ( 25) £500.00 21-Oct-04 10:03:25 BST


    bassmike712 ( 25) £500.00 20-Oct-04 11:33:28 BST


    bassmike712 ( 25) £450.00 20-Oct-04 11:32:14 BST
     
  6. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Why - what's the reason for this? Surely, all it is does is make people like me, very suspicious of their motives! :meh: :confused:
     
  7. Nino Valenti

    Nino Valenti Commercial User

    Feb 2, 2001
    Staten Island NYC
    Builder: Valenti Basses
    The 1st 2 buyers look like it's the seller with a different name jacking up the price. Pwersonally, I don't like it when I see 0 or -#'s bidding high. The - might just be some loser bidding case he has nothing better to do.

    the 3rd buyer looks like he might be trying to find the reserve because it went to £450.00 then £5000.00, which could be the reserve, then again to £500.00 which might be just adding aliitle more so he dosen't get outbid & "lose" the auction.
     
  8. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    That was my impression! :meh:
    But, I thought eBay was supposed to have ways of stamping this out? Surely this is bad for everybody and I saw it on virtually every DB auction I looked at!! :(


    £50 is quite jump though - add on half again for $ and nobody else was bidding!

    I still don't understand how this is all allowed and nobody does anything about it - despite eBay's stated policies - I couldn't find a serious auction of DBs in the UK ...?

    Is it really the case that most bidders on eBay are either morons, timewasters, 'virtual vandals' or scammers....? :meh:
     
  9. Toasted

    Toasted

    May 26, 2003
    Leeds, UK
    Say, Person 1 and Person 2 are bidding on am item.

    Person 1 places a bid of £50, and then sets ebay to keep bidding for him upto a value of £100

    Person 2 comes along and sees Person 1's £50, thinks he'd like the item and bids £60.

    If there are two bids of identicle value, Ebay gives priority to the earliest bid.

    Despite the fast Person 2 has bid £60, because Person 1 has earlier proxy bids in upto the value of £100, Person 2's bid does not show up in the list, instead it is Person 1's £60 bid that is desplayed in the list.

    No; I dont think so; I've had about 20 transactions on ebay.co.uk over the past 4 months and ive only been a little unhappy with one of them. These transactions are both as a seller and buyer.

    Theres nothing fishy going on at all :)
     
  10. DigMe

    DigMe

    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX
    That's not the case in the US. I have probably 140 or more Ebay transactions under my belt and I've never been ripped off once. I've never been unhappy with a purchase except maybe twice and it wasn't that big of a deal. Once a CD wasn't "like new" as described but it still played fine and the other time it was with one of the people who do Ebay for a career and have hundreds of auctions at a time and the guy was just real slow to ship. I've also never had any bad experiences with the buyers except for the rare nonpayer. The few times that nonpayment has occurred I've just put the item back up for auction. These problems are pretty much the same kinds of problems that a brick and mortar store is going to have...most people are fine and have no problems but occasionally you're going to have a bounced check, a fraudulent credit card transaction or even an attempted con job.

    brad cook
     
  11. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Well - this seems to be getting to the question I asked - although it is still not well explained - I've read this through several times and it still doesn't make sense to me - so I could bid and it would "disappear", if somebody had put in a prior, proxy bid? - very confusing!! :confused: - and it is something that isn't explained anywhere in the eBay help fields I've read - can anybody point me to the relevant one of these?

    Alternatively can anybody explain how the real examples I gave in this thread, woudl legitmately have happened - because of proxy bidding etc. ?
     
  12. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    This seems to directly contradict what it actually says on bid history pages on Ebay - ( I quote) :

    "Only actual bids (not automatic bids generated up to a bidder's maximum) are shown."



    :confused:
     
  13. suicas

    suicas

    Mar 12, 2004
    UK
    Could you post links to the auction or bidding history in question?

    It might be useful for those of us who use ebay regulary to have have a look directly, in case some of us are misunderstanding the situation.

    If all else fails, you could drop an email to ebay asking about the items in question. Either they'll notice the fact that someone is artificially trying to inflate the price and shut that auction down, or they should be friendly enough to explain what is actually happening.

    --
    Dave
     
  14. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Here's one :
    http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws3/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=3754860301

    and another :

    http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws3/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=3755403714

    It says :"Only actual bids (not automatic bids generated up to a bidder's maximum) are shown"

    - so on the last one, why did "User ID thecameron0" bid 6 times in a row with increasing bids? :confused:

    Can there be a legitimate reason - or is he/she/it just an idiot,disruptive, bored or illegally trying to inflate the price?
     
  15. suicas

    suicas

    Mar 12, 2004
    UK
    I use ebay quite a lot, and to be honest I'd definitely report this.

    The only legitimate reason you might have for outbidding yourself is to place a higher top end bid that you're willing to pay. For example:

    1. I find a bass I like going for £20, I put a £50 max bid on it.
    2. The top bid is now £20, I'm the winning bidder.
    3. I later realise that I really don't want someone else to outbid me (even though no-one has), so I bid again, this time with a £100 max bid.
    4. Bid price is now £25, as each bid increases the price by the minimum bid increment (even though all I wanted to do was increase my max bid, not bid against myself).

    However, this happening more than once in an auction is highly unlikely, and the fact that this is happening with users with 0 or negative feedback means that it's farmore likely to be a scam to artificially inflate prices.

    If you want ebay to investigate (which I'd advise in this case!), go to:
    http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/contact_inline/report_problem.html

    Select:
    1. Report Transaction problems
    2. Problems with sellers
    3. Seller is bidding on his/her item with another user ID

    Click continue, then click on the "Email" link on the page that appears. This should then prompt you to enter the suspicious item IDs, along with the seller IDs.

    They're usually very good at looking into things like this, they have an extremely low tolerance for anyone trying to abuse their system.

    Hope this helps!

    --
    Dave
     
  16. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    That does help, thank you - as it confirms what I thought, but I didn't really want to complain to eBay and make myself look like a fool!! ;)

    What surprised me though, was that virtually every auction for Double Basses in the UK was like this - in fact every one I looked at!!

    Hence my comments !! :meh:

    The thing is that I don't really care if there are huge numbers of scammers on eBay as I never intend to buy from there - but I was hoping to get an idea of the Market Price for DBs in the UK and how much I could "haggle" etc. - but if eBay is totally unrealistic, then it's no help at all!! :(


    [PS it's interesting to se how many people are unaware of this or are prepared to explain it away somehow...:meh: ]
     
  17. Could the person have been successively bidding trying to get over the reserve price? I've seen that a lot and that's what it looks like to me.

    -Geoff
     
  18. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    How would they know they had achieved this? :confused:

    Anyway - in the last one I cited as an example, with 6 consecutive bids from the same person; the seller has said in big letters at the start of his auction "A New "DOUBLE BASS 3/4 SIZE" with NO reserve !!!!!" !!
     
  19. DigMe

    DigMe

    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX
    Bruce,

    You've probably already discovered this but another thing that might be helpful in finding out the market prices is to only search for completed auctions to see what people actually paid when all was said and done. I do that quite a bit myself. On Ebay US though you have to be a registered member to do a search through completed auctions.

    brad cook
     
  20. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member


    EDIT - right just found this!

    But even so, it is still relevant that an auction has had the price artificially raised by dodgy behaviour...? :meh: