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should i ditch the bvamp and get just an eq pedal or compressor or both???

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by ::::BASSIST::::, Mar 31, 2005.


  1. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    I used my bvamp for the first time with my band last night. I have come to the conclusion that it has way more options than i need. I am not a knob twiddler and this thing has so many possibilities that i cant find a decent tone that works for me. All i want is a pure bass tone, with a little more low-end. I play in a classic rock cover band. We pay for our time at the rehearsal place so i dont want to waste time tweaking the never ending possibilities. Plus, I dont want to use up time while everybody is waiting for me. Problem is I thought i had a good tone set up before i went to the rehearsal. Then i played with the band and things didnt sound near as good.

    BTW, my gear is a AI Clarus 300 with a wizzy 1-12 and my geddy jazz.

    Can i bypass all the features of the vamp and just use the compressor and eq?

    The tuner on this thing really bites.

    What do you guys think of the compressor in the vamp? This is my first time using one. The manual says turn it to the right to utilize the compressor, but i found that it works the other way around. Am i doing something wrong?

    I am thinking maybe i should just get a simple eq pedal. Is there a pedal out there that is both an eq and compressor?

    Do I really need a compressor? What does it really do?

    Please enlighten me. I am getting frustrated trying to achieve just a simple good bass tone.
     
  2. bassman314

    bassman314 I seem to be a verb, an evolutionary process... Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 13, 2005
    Bay Area, CA
    Hey TORIN,

    I'd drop the Vamp, as it will just take up space. You've mentioned how the tuner sucks and that there is just oo much for you to work with. Might as well sell it or trade it out to someone who can use it.

    A good compressor will fatten your tone up, better, I think, than a good EQ. I've used both on my rig, and I liked the compressed sound better than the EQ'd sound. I have a Digitech Bass Squeeze. Do a search on compressors. There have been several compressor threads recently with tons of good information.

    I'd go ahead and invest in a good tuner, as well, since that seems to be a reason you don't like the Vamp. I love my BOSS TU-2, and I have several KORG GA-20's in my various gig bags and cases.
     
  3. I don't know if this helps but to really get a handle on my sound when I added a BOSS ME-50B I kept everything flat for 1 or 2 rehearsals and then slowly started to add things.

    For example, turn off all compressors, EQs and FX in the Vamp and start playing. After a couple of songs start to mess around with things but go gently. Add a little low eq. See how it sounds for one or two songs. Add some high EQ and see how it sounds for one or two songs. Also use the compressor sparingly at first to get a handle on it.

    My thinking is that you've got a great bass and amp, use the Vamp to gently compliment this sound/tone. Keep in mind that 100% of the time when you're jamming in your bedroom and find a sound, it will sound different when you play with the band.

    Just my two cents to give it a chance before you let it go.
     
  4. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    Agreed. Start with just an amp model and nothing else and play. Whatever you don't like about it, start with just the bass, mid, treble. Anything beyond that is for when you have the time to critique, go back, retry it, add more, etc. On that note, it would also (if at all possible) to spend time on your own doing the tweaking instead of using band togetherness time where you guys just wanna play.

    Honestly for me, if I were to play during practice with the band and switch the compression from one side to another, I probably would not notice way too much unless I wasn't even hardly paying attention to the rehearsal going and just listening intently to my rig. So yeah, you may want some personal alone bonding time with your rig.

    Everything, I believe, has trade offs. The modeler has lots of sound options and efx and all that, but you gotta mess with it to get it to be what you want. A super simple, high powered, all tube yummified amp could be simple, but then the weight, cost, tube replacement, etc. Just two polar opposite examples of stuff you gotta face when choosing your gear. Then there is everything in the middle. But I'm sure every serious bassist out there has taken the time to mess with their stuff so much they can pick out and adjust a sound to their liking, even during practice, playing, singing...heck, even in the middle of shows.

    But hey, if a piece of gear is just not you or you hate it, of course, ditch the thing and get something more to your liking.

    *edit - Oh, and one more thing. After you get to know your rig and your sound, you'll start to develop a sense of what WILL sound good in a band situation, despite what it sounds like by yourself. The definition of "good tone" will start to change. I'm still on the quest myself. But I'm getting there...

    -T
     
  5. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    hey thanks guys. today did a reset to factory presets on the vamp and that actually helped. i bought mine on ebay used so i guess i was playing with someone elses' idea of what sounds good. then i messed with those settings to try to make it better and thats when it went not so great.

    you are totally right about the rig sounding different while playing with the band. here i thought it was a great sound solo but then with the band it was too middy without enough e string volume.

    it is tempting to just buy a compressor and twiddle with the eq on my clarus. however, the bvamp has a compressor already and of course, more eq options. i could care less for the effects and amp modeling etc. I just want clear, clean classic rock tone with sufficient low-end.

    Could anyone advise on a bvamp factory setting that would match my criteria?
     
  6. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    Alright! Glad you got a decent enough sound going without the Bvamp flying out the window. Wait, I'm looking to buy one...what am I doing convincing you to keep it?! No, it's all wrong for you...it sucks!!! ;)

    But anyway, maybe a good place to start is if you know enough about how a certain amp sounds and you want that sound, start with that amp model EQ'd flat. Then whatever you feel is missing in the band mix, EQ it in. Classic rock tone? I'm guessing the "SVT" model would not be extremely creative, but it's a good place to start. If you want more low end, dial up the bass end of things. And actually, you'd be surprised how mids gives you that "I'M HERE!" presence in the mix without having to turn up volume. Might have to roll off the highs somewhat to keep that SVT model from growling it's way into unwanted territory.

    "Rock Classic" aka Ampeg SVT Classic (amp #6)
    or
    "Rock 2" aka Ampeg SVT-2 Pro (amp #7)

    But wait, you were asking for specific presets right? Well, not being a user of the unit yet (only the regular guitar v-amp 2 and other modelers), I can only give general advice:

    Most presets are known to be NOT cool.

    They are mainly over emphasized and exaggerated. Most people say they sound "interesting" on their own (if you even like it) and then with the band, it just is not good. I believe you are running into this.

    You really get the most out of these modelers when you do your own thing. The presets are great ideas of what the amp model can do with some effects...and hey, maybe you'll dig it. But it seems to me most people don't. Especially if you are going for your own sound. Hence, our suggestion of picking a preset that has an amp model you like. Then turn DOWN or OFF all the effects and set the EQ to flat. OH, and don't forget to turn OFF the cabinet modeling! You already have your own cabinet to color the sound. This might also be a key to why you don't quite dig it, or might be too noisy, or too this or too that. After killing all efx and outside variables, you are only left with the amp model. If you like it still and is usable for you, EQ to taste. Now SAVE that (overwrite) the preset it originally was. Now you're getting somewhere.

    Aside from the SVT for straight up classic rock stuff, I also suggest the "Tube Preamp" amp model. It states it just gives your bass more "life". Then just EQ.

    Again, all this from someone who hasn't really used it but used similar products. I just read the manual. So take what I say with a grain of salt. Just thought it might help. I'm going to own one soon, so I will know this funky machine inside and out soon enough. Hope the tuner isn't as bad as you say! Chances are it'll probably be though :meh:

    Oh well! Best of luck!

    -T
     
  7. Justice

    Justice

    May 24, 2002
    Houston TX.
    My favorite amp model on the B-Vamp is the Tube Preamp which I think is patch number 1. I have 3 versions of this patch saved in the first 3 banks. One for my OLP bass, One for my Steinberger and one for my Hot rodded SX P bass.

    I'll need to add another for my newly aquired F-Bird.

    I have just been tweaking them a little bit here and there and when I find something I like, it's just push one button to save it. And then it is easy to recall.

    I need to get my FCB1010 controller back out and do some more programming to get some more out of the unit.

    The problem with the tuner in the B VAmp (IMO) is a low input signal, but that can be boosted by using the editing software and hooking it up to a computer. That said, I just have my little Korg CA30 tuner running out of the headphone jack on the front of the B-Vamp. :p
     
  8. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    "OH, and don't forget to turn OFF the cabinet modeling!"

    how do i do that?

    also that tip about the tuner is really cool. i am going to that with my little korg, which works a million times better.

    i did do that... find a (very) few good presets and adjust them. i turned all effects off and then add a little more depth if required. a couple of the presets sound pretty good without touching anything.

    this thing has like 125 presets with about 15 that are bearable and about 4 of those that suit my needs. Why do they bother putting keyboard and guitar presets into a BASS gizmo? I know its for marketing but i just think its silly.

    so both the compressor and the tuner, it seems to me, bite. I dont use any effects. so the only thing the bvamp is good for is the amp modeling and general boost/drive features. However, those 4 presets that do sound pretty good make it worth it, especially since i got this thing cheap.

    I'll have to take a closer look at the tube pre-amp patch. so far the one that works/suits my needs best is the "rock classic" setting. a couple of the other amp models such as the 60s british are decent, but i prefer the rock classic as it has no inherent hum.

    the bvamp, using the 3 or 4 likeable settings, does make my clarus sound better... no doubt. however, i am still thinking i may get a pedal which boosts the low-end but also limits the peaks and sell the bvamp to pay for the other pedal.
     
  9. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    Alright! Just received my Bass v-amp Pro! I'll be messing with it tonight and give my thoughts. But first:

    Hmm! Good advice. Is there any way to do this without the computer? But if not, can you elaborate or give specific instructions on how to do this?

    Regarding how to turn off the cab modeling, I believe you go into EDIT mode (press both arrows at same time). Then click the "C" button which is for cabinet modeling. Then use the arrows to make the display read " - " (no #). This turns the cab modeling to OFF. Then save your setting!

    Reading your post, it seems you want more low-end. Have you tried the "DEEP" function yet by holding "TAP" and turning the "BASS" knob? Not sure to what extent that helps, but the manual states it controls the EQ that is lower than what the BASS usually does.

    Apologies if you knew any of this info already. Just some of my thoughts that may or may not help.

    And yup, I think an equally good move at the least would be to get a nice compressor and EQ pedal. That's tried and true tested over the years. Let me know if you do and what your results are!

    -T
     
  10. Justice

    Justice

    May 24, 2002
    Houston TX.
    I just went back through my emails and here is what I have on that... Direct from Behringer - about increasing the input sensitivity on the B-vamp and B-Vamp Pro---

    -----------------------
    Yep - it's possible (with the PRO's for sure). The Bass V-Amp & Bass V-Amp Pro both feature the "global input gain" control - activated in CONFIGURATION MODE by pressing the TAP key (then turning the GAIN knob). This makes sense because the Bass V-Amp & Bass V-Amp Pro are intended for use not just with a bass guitar, but with a wide range of different instruments all running at different levels - and also because some active bass pickups are really "hot" and the signal needs to be trimmed back for the best results.


    So:

    -press D & E simultaneously to enter CONFIGURATION MODE

    -press the TAP key and hold it down

    -turn the GAIN knob to adjust input sensitivity

    -release TAP key when finished

    -press EXIT (TUNER) key to return to normal operation

    ---------

    I THINK this might help with the tuner on the Bvamp because thats what it acts like, the tuner is not getting a strong enough signal. I have not tried this yet because I can get the tuner to work if I really need to use it, but I have another solution in place as noted in an above post.
     
  11. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    man, that is cool.

    now i can leave my other tuner in my practice spot at home.

    :)
     
  12. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    Alright! Great post and instructions. Thanks. This will definitely help as well. Now for another important question:

    When it finally does start tracking the tuning and all (especially after the input fix), does it STILL stink? Or does it tune decently? Quickly enough and accurately? Wondering whether I can rely on it or not. My Korg rackmount might get a bit jealous if so ;)

    Also, in section 6.2 in the manual and even on the outside of the box, it mentions 4 overdrive simulations and how to control it. Only problem is they DON'T mention how to call it up! :scowl: Does anyone know how to do this? It states in section 10 (appendix) that control changes for 4 pedal simulations are on control 33. And the control #'s after that do refer to the drive, tone, boost, and split. So I'm pretty sure I've confirmed that the overdrive pedal simulations are there. But HOW do you get them?! Anyone?

    I doubt this will give my M-2000 any reason to worry, but for direct recording flexibility, versatility with other instruments, and convenience for traveling situations, this could be a cool alternative.

    Thanks again!

    -T
     
  13. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    Oh and TORIN: Let me know if that DEEP bass control solves your low end problem.

    I'm really interested to know where the EQ frequencies are for the DEEP, BASS, MID, and TREBLE are. Anyone know? I know you can shift the mid frequency range for most amps models. But it would help to know for which ones and what frequencies are adjusted.

    -T
     
  14. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    yes, the deep dial does work pretty good. for me, i am trying to get a balance b/n a classic rock sound with some low-end undertones while still keeping the highs.

    i wont really know if the tweaking i have done are what i seek until i play with my band this coming wednesday.

    i have pdf file of the factory presets (their names and who programmed them) which did not come with my manual. if you want pm me and i will email the file to you. i found this helped distinguishing them from each other as you can see which patches are "strictly" for bass, keys or guitar. the names help a little too. such as "old skool" meaning a classic rock sound etc.
     
  15. Justice

    Justice

    May 24, 2002
    Houston TX.
    Well, the my B-Vamp tuner works fine, it tunes in key and everything, it just seems to want a hotter signal than I'm feeding it right now, hence the research into the global input level adjustments.

    Pressing the B (while in edit mode) button on the front of the B-vamp turns on the drive function which is the basis of the overdrive stomp boxes....I have not used them so I'm a little stuck from there...let me research a bit more and I'll get back to you on that...

    But if you were wondering what the stompbox models were supposed to be...according to Behringer they are..
    1 Big Bass Boost----- Electro Harmonix, Hogs Foot, warm bass boost
    2 Big Fuzz----- Electro Harmonix, Big Muff Pi Fuzz
    3 El Raton----- The Rat, buzz saw bass and squeal
    4 Booster Line Driver----- T.C. Electronics, Booster Line Driver - Distortion
     
  16. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    hehe, thanks Justice... I hadn't read your post before I posted the same information in another thread. I will delete the other thread promptly. Other than the fact that I found out when I called the Behringer customer service line (really helpful and fast to get a human being, btw): Press both arrows. Then press DRIVE. Then the arrows will designate from nothing, to 1-4, switching through the pedals you mentioned.

    I got to try out my Bvamp Pro today! A full review is upcoming but when I finally got it hooked up to a good PA source (sorta), man... it rocked. Maybe I just never got my M-2000 set up right (nor my old SVT-4Pro, nor my other rigs), but I never heard such outrageous lows and hard hitting punchiness. I only had time to try the Classic Rock (SVT) setting, but it was really great. WOO!

    No, it probably has nothing on a real SVT rocking your nads off, but then again, I've never plugged and played through a real SVT and don't forsee when I ever will. All I know is I was playing it and I was hearing some crazy feel-good lows from it that inspired me to want to play more and want to test it out with the rest of the band and see what they think. To me, that equals a moderate amount of success. Especially for the extra light dent it made in my wallet.

    Oh, and the tuner worked just fine. Maybe it was my active bass. It just worked. No, it wasn't super-duper fast nor laser accurate, but it worked just as well as my Korg. I consider that a notch in the win column as well. The rest of the story I will tell later.

    Thanks for reading.

    -T
     
  17. I still need a cab to run mine through. I was going to use the V-Amp Pro as a pre for my QSC RMX1450 (Anyone else see the irony here? ;))

    I've also had an excessive ton of work, and have been lucky to just grab a bass...

    Can't wait to try it out. :hyper:
     
  18. Transverz

    Transverz believer of the Low End Theory

    May 3, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    hahaha, yeah, I thought the the same thing if I were to pair it up with my RMX 850. I bet QSC starts putting in electronics to reject the v-amp signal haha...

    -T
     
  19. I've gotten a good setting for finger style with with my fender jazz. The jazz bass setting seems to work pretty well. AS for slap ehh its ok. Ive been fiddling around with diffrent settings, but noting good yet. Anyone have a suggestions. Now when I say slap i dont mean wooten or marcus style. Just when the song calls for it. I seem to lose the lows, mids and highs are still there. BUt its that low end thump I crave.
     
  20. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    I moved on from the v-amp to the sansamp para driver and I am much happier. Its easy to dial in a great tone.

    btw, dont know if this matters but this original thread is 6 months old.

    May the gods of bass smile upon you. :bassist: