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Should I...?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Jebthebassist, Feb 12, 2005.


  1. Jebthebassist

    Jebthebassist

    Dec 8, 2004
    I just found out that my WT-800 is underpowering my PR-410HLF cab. I'm running 400 watts @ 4 ohms into my 600 watt RMS 4 @ ohm cab. I'm unable to run my amp to the point where i can be loud and not have clipping. I never allow for clipping because we all know where that gets you. Now for my question to all of you...
    Should I...
    A.) Sell my WT-800 and buy a more powerful amp, one that will put me in the sweet spot with my cab.

    B.) Look into buying a new cab (or cabs) and get something that will fit my amp better so that i dont have to worry about clipping and destroying my gear.

    C.) Just put up with what I've got and watch/listen very carefully for any problems and make sure the output limit lights don't come on.

    This problem has been on my mind for a while now and I would appreciate as much help as I can get.
     
  2. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    the best bang for your buck would probably be another cabinet. maybe a 210. you're not going to notice a super difference with a more powerful head/poweramp into that one cab. The other idea might be to look at other 410 cabs that are 8 ohms and sound louder than the one you have. then you can bridge your amp into it, and have a cab that will allow you to be heard better.
     
  3. kjones

    kjones Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2004
    Maryland
    I'd need to know a few more things about your situation. Are you very happy with the sound of your cabinet? What size places are you playing? Do you go with FOH support? What kind of music do you play?

    These would help us give you more intelligent answers than we would come up with otherwise.
     
  4. Jebthebassist

    Jebthebassist

    Dec 8, 2004
    Okay, heres some more info to help you guys.

    I like to play funk, rock, blues, jazz, a bunch of stuff. Think The Mars Volta, RHCP, ACP, At the Drive In, just crap like that.

    Right now i play at small places (church with 300-400 people in a large room. Also they dont like putting me through the system too much because of the low frequencies and of blowing subs). But eventually my band and I are going to want to play out at some larger shows, even some outdoor gigs and all.
    I really like the tone i can get from the Eden and I really like the lows the PRO cab can produce but I dont like that fact that it weights 128 lbs. I looked at an Ashdown cab (i think, that or Aguilar) and it was rated 8 ohms and it was like 650watts with 900 watts peak, and the low frequency went down to like 40, any idea how much that would cost me? So I like the sound a lot but like i said im just worried about damaging something here.

    I hope some of this info helps :)
     
  5. kjones

    kjones Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2004
    Maryland
    The information you've given does in fact help. I would strongly consider upgrading the amp. You like your cabinet tone, and you're going to be moving up in venues. You're playing high energy music. Given that information, it is my opinion that an amp with more oomph should be in your future.
     
  6. Jebthebassist

    Jebthebassist

    Dec 8, 2004
    thanks kjones for the addvies :) The only trouble is finding the right amp that will give me that power. I would like to find something that is same price or around as the WT-800 cause thats something that i can probably afford. I saw a thread on here about how ashdown (i think, or maybe it was aguilar) is cutting some prices. Could i get a pretty sweet beefy amp from them? One that will give me some tones comparable to the eden if not even beyond the eden?
     
  7. Selta

    Selta

    Feb 6, 2002
    Pacific Northwet
    Total fanboi of: Fractal Audio, AudiKinesis Cabs, Dingwall basses
    + freaking 1
    As we allllll know, doubling your wattage buys you 3dB. Whoopie, let's start a party. (sorry to be sarcastic, but that's me disagreeing with kjones)
    Buying the 2nd cab will have more cones moving more air, and in laymans terms just loads more volume.
    Being that your cab is 4ohm, and that's the lowest load the WT800 can take, you're either stuck with 8ohm load, but more cabs (will be louder still), or selling the ampeg and getting two 8ohm cabs (expensive, but using the amp to it's max).
    Just my $0.02!

    Ray
     
  8. Jebthebassist

    Jebthebassist

    Dec 8, 2004
    thanks bassist. I think i might look into getting another inexpecive cab. The balls of my sound will come from my ampeg and the umm, more balls will coem from my future cab. lol

    anyone have any other ideas?
     
  9. boogiebass

    boogiebass

    Aug 16, 2000
    I think I'd consider another cab, too. Possibly a 4 ohm cab so you can run both in stereo with the 800 or use a serial cable (see discussion in your other thread) and bridge the 800 at 8 ohms. An 8 ohm 410 might not be a bad solution, either, as you could bridge into it or use it off one side of the 800 with your other cab on the other side. In any case, good luck! :cool:
     
  10. Jebthebassist

    Jebthebassist

    Dec 8, 2004
    thank boogiebass. I think I might try to get a 210 cab (maybe a 410, not sure) that is 4 ohms and run amp in series so i can bridge my amp and push 800 watts through the ampeg an new cab.
     
  11. jiant.

    jiant.

    Jul 3, 2004
    Fort Mill, SC
    You might also want to look into the SVT 410 HLF cab, It's about 25 lbs lighter, and you won't be giving up the sound that you like. Also it has a lower rms rating. On the Ampeg site it says 500w, but I swear that some of them..including mine are 400w rms. I bought mine new last September from Bass Central. I'll look into it tomorrow when I have access to my cab.
     
  12. Eden has that new WT1200 that looks pretty sweet, if you're happy with your tone.
     
  13. Jebthebassist

    Jebthebassist

    Dec 8, 2004
    the WT-1200? How much will that be when it comes out? and assuming i trade up on my amp how much do you think id have to fork out?
     
  14. kjones

    kjones Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2004
    Maryland
    Don't mind you disagreeing with me, Bad Habit Bassist, but you missed my point. I didn't say upgrade wattage to get louder. Jeb's primary problem wasn't loudness, at least he didn't say it was. His primary problem was that when he turned his amp up to power his cabinet, which he said he liked, he was close to clipping. More wattage would give him much more headroom and fewer worries about clipping. That was my point, not any chimerical increase in volume.
     
  15. Selta

    Selta

    Feb 6, 2002
    Pacific Northwet
    Total fanboi of: Fractal Audio, AudiKinesis Cabs, Dingwall basses
    Now dear kjones, why would he be turning up his amp? ;) But yeah, he and I chatted on MSN for a lil while, so I know more of what his problem was than his posts read as. When he volumes up to a anywhere near desireable output level, his amp clips, so in essence, he's looking to go louder. This is easier done with adding a cab, than more wattage. And by adding a cab he wont have to turn up so much. Correct me if I'm wrong - I don't mean to flame you!

    Ray
     
  16. TheChariot

    TheChariot

    Jul 6, 2004
    Boston, MA
    No offense dude... but I honestly dont like that setup too much at all. I'm sure you get awesome tone, because the PR and the WT are EXCELLENT sounding piece of equipment... but for the volumes your looking for, your gonna need more than just 10's (unless you wanna be a knucklehead, and get an 810).

    I would seriously think about overhauling your system. Start with the cabs. I would get a pair of 8ohm cabs, for versatility. After that, shoot for a more powerful head... or maybe go Pre-Power, if you find a setup that suits you.

    Again... this is all in my own opinion. If you really dont want to abandon the sound of your current gear, you should try other ways. But... outdoor shows?.... yeah... you'll probably need a 115 somewhere in there.
     
  17. Tim Cole

    Tim Cole

    Jun 12, 2002
    Findlay, Ohio
    With all due respect, and I KNOW you know your stuff......I have to disagree.

    I'll take 1200 watts through a 2x10 any day of the week before 600 through a 6x10. If you like the Eden tone, go for the Navigator pre and a separate power amp of big wattage. With the navigator, a cheapie crown xls-602 (1200 bridged at 8 ohms) I did an outdoor fest gig, on 2 flatbed semi trailers side by side for the stage, and had more clean power and volume than any other setup I have ever had. For me, all the cabs in the world wont do enough without good clean power to push it.
     
  18. I'm in agreement with Cole here, i think.

    Why can't you just get an additional power amp? A half decent power amp has gotta save you some moolah and a helluva lota more power than a new amp and/or cab - of which you may not get your sound from...

    just a thought. i dont particulerly know my amps that well (mon the no0obs!), but to me this seems more like a better option...? :eyebrow: :)
     
  19. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    good point. i do get away with 2 very small cabs and a lot of watts these days. One thing to consider, (and nothing personal against eden), but not all amps with equal wattage ratings are equal. there are a lot of ways to fudge the data here and there. i've noticed that eden is a bit overrated. OTH, crown watts are loud as heck. Even with my stewart power amp, 400 watts thru my 1x15 is as loud as 400 eden watts was thru six tens. I really dig the eden tone myself, but if i got a navigator i would use someone elses poweramp.
     
  20. Richard Lindsey

    Richard Lindsey

    Mar 25, 2000
    Metro NYC
    More power is always good, but you have to keep in mind that speakers have physical performance limits. There comes a point when a given pair of 10s in a given cab simply will not move any more air, no matter how much power you throw at them. The poster may or may not be playing at levels that reach that point, who knows. But six of a given type of 10s, all else being equal, will have a higher max potential output than two of the saem 10s would. Not to mention that the sensitivity for a given input is likely to be substantially higher with six than with two. Meaning that 600 W into six 10s could be louder than 1200 into two 10s.