Should you use a Focusrite 2i2 to record your bass?

[Obese Chess]

My active NS Design Radius CR5 has an 18V preamp and actually has lower output when dimed than my AmStd J5 unless I crank up the bass and treble controls.

A Sadowsky preamp has 0dB of gain until you turn up the tone controls. Set them full CCW and toggle from passive to active and the level stays the same.

I guess people just use a lot of EQ boost on their active basses. Most onboard preamps can boost each band 12-15dB.

If that's the case then the OP is only correct in that it lacks a pad function. They are not correct that it's not an easily resolved concern that anyone can easily address using only the volume knob on their bass with no additional purchases or gear to connect. I don't have access to a gen 1 or 2 Scarlett 2i2, but if anyone wants to send one to me I will happily demonstrate just how simple this really is.

Yeah, I dunno, I tend to defer to y'all on these matters as I'm certainly no expert, I'm just saying I had the same experience as OP - I couldn't get my active basses to not clip on a 2i2 unless the gain on the interface and the volume on the bass were at near zero and I played with a very light touch. Didn't have that problem with the 2i4 or any other interface I've had. Google suggests a lot of bass players have this issue with the 2i2 which is possibly part of why it's been tweaked in software, etc, since the third gen (as suggested in the linked comment from Focusrite in the original post).

 

[silky smoove]

I couldn't get my active basses to not clip on a 2i2 unless the gain on the interface and the volume on the bass were at near zero and I played with a very light touch.

In this scenario were you accommodating for the fact that you were sending a low impedance signal to a high impedance input? That's the only variable I could see being a factor. Aside from that, turning the volume knob down on an active bass does not alter the tone any, and since the volume knob can go from full output voltage (likely in the sub-1V, i.e. mV range) all the way down to 0V there's no way this makes sense other than to say that the 2i2 could not handle any signal. If that's the case the unit was broken.

 

[Bass Ape]

The DI box response is actually the correct one, however if the 2i2 is all you have. Let it Rip!!

If that's the case the unit was broken.

In the past I've gone thru 3 Scarlett 2i2s, so that's not outside the realm of possibility.

 

[Obese Chess]

In this scenario were you accommodating for the fact that you were sending a low impedance signal to a high impedance input? That's the only variable I could see being a factor. Aside from that, turning the volume knob down on an active bass does not alter the tone any, and since the volume knob can go from full output voltage (likely in the sub-1V, i.e. mV range) all the way down to 0V there's no way this makes sense other than to say that the 2i2 could not handle any signal. If that's the case the unit was broken.

If I understand the bolded question correctly, this means like, via use of a DI box or something, right? Because if that's the case, then no, I was plugging straight into the interface. Again, this was a pretty common complaint with the first and second generation 2i2, so I don't think my unit was broken, it just didn't handle hot signals very well without a good amount of fiddling and the documentation, such as it was, was quite vague about how to solve that issue. I sold it to a bandmate many years ago so I don't have it around to try and test anymore, but now that I know slightly (and I do mean slightly) more about recording it would be interesting to test.

 

[silky smoove]

If I understand the bolded question correctly, this means like, via use of a DI box or something, right?

There are any number of ways for converting high impedance to low impedance, but far fewer when going from low to high. The 1/4" input on the 2i2 of those generations may have only been suitable for high impedance, in which case the alternative would be to use a DI box or line isolator to make the XLR input viable. I don't have one on-hand to confirm, but if that's the case it would be an example of using the tool incorrectly. If not and the 1/4" input could handle low and high impedance signals then it's a non-issue.

it just didn't handle hot signals very well without a good amount of fiddling

That may well have been the case, but for the OP to suggest that it cannot handle signals is a very different story. The conceit of that statement would be that there was no value anywhere between zero volts and infinity volts that could be handled by the 2i2. That's obviously nonsense.

 

[bassbrad]

Hey @SpankBazz,

We all have our choices and favorites with gear, simply because it does not work in your application does not therefore render it useless or wrong for others to abuse. I for example do not favor Fender basses and despise Ampeg amps with the exception of a B15. In the past 40+ years of recording I can rarely recall plugging direct into any interface or console and not using a DI and on those occasions the engineer had their own input situation sussed out.

Many basses particularly those with preamps or very hot pickups can certainly cause issues in inputs designed with higher sensitivity for recording than the usual input in mixers or bass amps. At the least you might want to try a passive DI even an inexpensive one to remedy your issue. This can also be true with some microphones as some have higher output levels than others.

I have a 3rd gen 2i2 that has been just fine for me with anything I throw at it. I do use various preamps and DIs depending on tone when I record bass so have not had any issues. If I plan to use any modelling in the box then I will use the most neutral DI I have but that is rarely the case as I prefer to 'print' my tone going in like the old school recording fool I am.

I usually use my @Sushi Box FX Finally Tube DI with a Jensen transformer but also have several others to choose from; Dietz with a vintage Jensen, Countryman type 85, Rupert Neve RNDI, Radial JDI and several others including the dreaded Behringer DI100 that was my long time "house" DI for bass until I got the Finally.

Even when using some of my microphones I will use a mic pre as more or less gain is needed for the interface.

I won the 2i2 g3 Studio in a contest earlier this year just when shopping interfaces so I got doubly lucky. I usually record into Harrison MixBus8 with has stellar compressors, EQs and other tools. It also works fine with other softwares I have tried.

These comments were not meant as a criticism of your criticism but sharing my experience that you might consider.

 

[HolmeBass]

I have IIRC the 2nd gen 2i2 and it can be touchy to set the input gain for my basses, but hardly impossible.

 

[Bass Ape]

Hey @SpankBazz,

We all have our choices and favorites with gear, simply because it does not work in your application does not therefore render it useless or wrong for others to abuse. I for example do not favor Fender basses and despise Ampeg amps with the exception of a B15. In the past 40+ years of recording I can rarely recall plugging direct into any interface or console and not using a DI and on those occasions the engineer had their own input situation sussed out.

Many basses particularly those with preamps or very hot pickups can certainly cause issues in inputs designed with higher sensitivity for recording than the usual input in mixers or bass amps. At the least you might want to try a passive DI even an inexpensive one to remedy your issue. This can also be true with some microphones as some have higher output levels than others.

I have a 3rd gen 2i2 that has been just fine for me with anything I throw at it. I do use various preamps and DIs depending on tone when I record bass so have not had any issues. If I plan to use any modelling in the box then I will use the most neutral DI I have but that is rarely the case as I prefer to 'print' my tone going in like the old school recording fool I am.

I usually use my @Sushi Box FX Finally Tube DI with a Jensen transformer but also have several others to choose from; Dietz with a vintage Jensen, Countryman type 85, Rupert Neve RNDI, Radial JDI and several others including the dreaded Behringer DI100 that was my long time "house" DI for bass until I got the Finally.

Even when using some of my microphones I will use a mic pre as more or less gain is needed for the interface.

I won the 2i2 g3 Studio in a contest earlier this year just when shopping interfaces so I got doubly lucky. I usually record into Harrison MixBus8 with has stellar compressors, EQs and other tools. It also works fine with other softwares I have tried.

These comments were not meant as a criticism of your criticism but sharing my experience that you might consider.

That Harrison board is totally underrated. Back to the topic now!

 

[Timmah]

This might sound weird but some Focusrite Scarlett owners have reported better performance if they use a higher quality USB cable instead of the provided cable.

Has Mogami started selling $100 gold-plated USB yet?

 

[JimmyM]

Has Mogami started selling $100 gold-plated USB yet?

No but other companies are doing it. One has the gall to charge $200. There's one born every minute.

 

[Sid Fang]

It would have been nice if the OP had clearly stated whether he was running the 2i2 input in "Inst" (high-Z) or "Line" (low-Z) mode, since his description of the problem sounds more like an impedance mismatch than anything else. My own Focusrite is only a few years old. I run basses and guitars directly into it and it works fine, though I find I get fractionally better tone if I use a bass preamp on the bass. But you do have to get the impedance and gain settings right.

 

[CatOnTheBass]

That's because increased voltage provides additional headroom, not additional output.

Total placebo effect in those cases. A USB cable either works or it doesn't. It's digital. A better cable doesn't provide higher quality 1s and 0s than another, nor does it provide additional 1s and 0s.

Ah, but the USB cable doesn't just pass 1s and 0s! It also provides DC power from the computer to the interface. USB spec is 4-pin combo data/power. So the argument goes that a higher quality cable allows the Focusrite to draw more power from the computer, increasing the headroom of the preamps, and therefore less clipping.

I don't have a Focusrite to test for myself, but it's an inexpensive experiment the OP could try. (And most people have a drawer full of spare USB cables, so I'm not suggesting going out and spending $200 on a gold plated Mogami!) I've noticed that my electronic devices do seem to charge slower with low-quality quality cables so I don't think the idea is totally far fetched (that the preamps would be more prone to clipping if they are underpowered).

If we are talking about the Scarlett 18i8 or higher (which have their own power supplies as opposed to drawing power over USB) then I would totally agree with you: In that case the USB cable is only passing digital 1s and 0s.

 

[silky smoove]

Ah, but the USB cable doesn't just pass 1s and 0s! It also provides DC power from the computer to the interface.

Excellent point. I never bus power anything intended to pass high quality audio, so that possibility had not occurred to me. I'm skeptical as to the perceived benefits of different cables as they're all likely to pass comparable levels of power, but I'll concede that it's at least possible for a crappy cable to only be capable of passing lower levels of power thus degrading signal headroom in the process.

 

[Dominic D]

Ah, but the USB cable doesn't just pass 1s and 0s! It also provides DC power from the computer to the interface. USB spec is 4-pin combo data/power. So the argument goes that a higher quality cable allows the Focusrite to draw more power from the computer, increasing the headroom of the preamps, and therefore less clipping.

I don't have a Focusrite to test for myself, but it's an inexpensive experiment the OP could try. (And most people have a drawer full of spare USB cables, so I'm not suggesting going out and spending $200 on a gold plated Mogami!) I've noticed that my electronic devices do seem to charge slower with low-quality quality cables so I don't think the idea is totally far fetched (that the preamps would be more prone to clipping if they are underpowered).

If we are talking about the Scarlett 18i8 or higher (which have their own power supplies as opposed to drawing power over USB) then I would totally agree with you: In that case the USB cable is only passing digital 1s and 0s.

The 2i2 is rated for 900mA and the average USB cable is rated for 2A. Unless there's something seriously wrong with the stock cable, it's not going to restrict the power.

EDIT: I forgot the 2i2 has been a USB-C device since Gen 3. The average USB-C cable is rated for 3A.

 

[silky smoove]

The 2i2 is rated for 900mA and the average USB cable is rated for 2A. Unless there's something seriously wrong with the stock cable, it's not going to restrict the power.

Especially considering that, if memory serves, the standard for USB output jacks (sockets?) on a computer is 500mA. Any USB cable should easily pass that amount. I'm curious if the 2i2 draws 900mA and a standard USB only produces 500mA (unless I'm mistaken), then why is bus powering it even an option? That seems like a bad idea, although admittedly I'm probably just missing something or have the specs wrong.

 

[Dominic D]

Especially considering that, if memory serves, the standard for USB output jacks (sockets?) on a computer is 500mA. Any USB cable should easily pass that amount. I'm curious if the 2i2 draws 900mA and a standard USB only produces 500mA (unless I'm mistaken), then why is bus powering it even an option? That seems like a bad idea, although admittedly I'm probably just missing something or have the specs wrong.

I can't find the power rating for the Gen 1-3 units, but they are USB2 devices so it can't be more than 500mA. The newest Gen 4 device is USB3. The spec for USB3 ports is 900mA.

 

[silky smoove]

I can't find the power rating for the Gen 1 and 2 units, but they are USB2 devices so it can't be more than 500mA. The Gen 3 and 4 devices are USB3. The spec for USB3 ports is 900mA.

I was thinking specifically of the gen 1 and 2 models since they're the apparent topic of this bizarre thread.

 

[Obese Chess]

That may well have been the case, but for the OP to suggest that it cannot handle signals is a very different story. The conceit of that statement would be that there was no value anywhere between zero volts and infinity volts that could be handled by the 2i2. That's obviously nonsense.

Fair enough. I do also note that OP mentions that this largely happens when they dig in, and I am also a very aggressive player with a heavy touch, so it doesn't surprise me that I had the same issue. Again, it can be mitigated in the ways you've said, but I also can't blame OP for being frustrated when many other interfaces on the market don't have the issue out of the box. Anyway, we are a bit into the weeds now, I just wanted to point out that a number of bassists specifically do have this 2i2 since you asked on page one, though now two pages later I realize that that may have been rhetorical.
Cheers!

 

[Sid Fang]

Ah, but the USB cable doesn't just pass 1s and 0s! It also provides DC power from the computer to the interface. USB spec is 4-pin combo data/power. So the argument goes that a higher quality cable allows the Focusrite to draw more power from the computer, increasing the headroom of the preamps, and therefore less clipping.

There are some engineering assumptions whose validity I question, but, yeah, I guess that's the argument...

...I've noticed that my electronic devices do seem to charge slower with low-quality quality cables so I don't think the idea is totally far fetched (that the preamps would be more prone to clipping if they are underpowered).

If you're talking about USB-C cables, those things are far more than just wire with connectors at the end. The terminations have active circuitry, little chips built into the ends of the cable to monitor and manage power delivery. Better ones can go higher safely. Cheaper ones throttle earlier so as not to catch fire. The old 2i2 had a USB-B connector and expected USB 2.0. The newer ones have a USB-C connector, but still expect USB 2.0 behavior, so even those should not be *depending* on the high-power modes.

And if the OP is still around, does the disabling/enabling the 48V phantom power option make a difference? It shouldn't, but...

 

[Dominic D]

There are some engineering assumptions whose validity I question, but, yeah, I guess that's the argument...

If you're talking about USB-C cables, those things are far more than just wire with connectors at the end. The terminations have active circuitry, little chips built into the ends of the cable to monitor and manage power delivery. Better ones can go higher safely. Cheaper ones throttle earlier so as not to catch fire. The old 2i2 had a USB-B connector and expected USB 2.0. The newer ones have a USB-C connector, but still expect USB 2.0 behavior, so even those should not be *depending* on the high-power modes.

And if the OP is still around, does the disabling/enabling the 48V phantom power option make a difference? It shouldn't, but...

USB-C cables can be active or passive.