Shuttle 6.0 Gain knob and tone

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by sonicnuance, Feb 13, 2009.


  1. sonicnuance

    sonicnuance Commercial User

    Aug 30, 2003
    California, USA
    Engineer & Owner, Sonic Nuance Electronics
    I find that the setting of the gain knob (I don't like the OD light to come on much) has a big impact on the tone. I'm talking about going from 10:00 to 2:00. To my ears, It seems to affect the bass and mid frequencies the most - though I can't seem to put my finger on it. It all sounds good, I just would like to understand better what increasing/decreasing is doing tonewise.

    I'm curious what other people have found.


    Thanks
     
  2. tallboybass

    tallboybass Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    This is a job for "agedhorse". He designed it, he'll know.
     
  3. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC/JAM USA: Distributor of Ashdown amplification
    here you go....maybe this will help...page 2:

    http://genzbenz.com/img/manuals/gb/SHUTTLE6_manual.pdf

    In the end, the more the input light lights up, the more tube warmth you're going to get and also, tube compression. The more extreme this gets, the more overdrive you'll get too.

    I hope this helps.
     
  4. sonicnuance

    sonicnuance Commercial User

    Aug 30, 2003
    California, USA
    Engineer & Owner, Sonic Nuance Electronics
    thanks hasbeen. I'm familiar with the manual and appreciate your explanation.

    Assuming the OD light barely comes on, is there any merit to the mids changing with the gain knob or am I imaging things?
     
  5. synterx

    synterx

    Jan 24, 2005
    Illinois
    I haven't noticed any tone change, I notice the tube compression and find if I don't get a healthy dose of red light going, I don't like it so much. The first few times I ran everything at noon and in the middle of songs realized how my levels were jumping a bit more than I remember from my other heads I'd used. I was ready to ditch the Shuttle, then posted about it here and was told about the functions of that input gain stage. I keep my gain knob 3/4 of the way maxed, and the level knob at 10:00 or so and I get just enough smoothness that I like. I must have a low output bass or something, because I can crank the gain knob all the way and do not get any real noticeable distortion.
     
  6. sonicnuance

    sonicnuance Commercial User

    Aug 30, 2003
    California, USA
    Engineer & Owner, Sonic Nuance Electronics
    hmmmm i'll try that. thanks synterx. time to blow some dust of the walls :) ...
     
  7. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC/JAM USA: Distributor of Ashdown amplification

    so is the second amp you received any different from the first?
     
  8. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC/JAM USA: Distributor of Ashdown amplification
    I'm sorry, I don't really know what this question means.

    Is there any merit??...do you mean, is there any merit that the mids may sound different? For certain.
     
  9. synterx

    synterx

    Jan 24, 2005
    Illinois
    Well, that is a tricky question. The 2nd one I received did send the red light into spasm quicker than my Blem I had bought from MF. Was it a bunch different? Not as much as I thought. I am now happy with what I get out of the Shuttle, whereas I wasn't quite before.
     
  10. sonicnuance

    sonicnuance Commercial User

    Aug 30, 2003
    California, USA
    Engineer & Owner, Sonic Nuance Electronics
    Yes, that was what I was asking, thank you. Can you explain *what* the mid frequencies are doing as the gain increases before going into the "red light zone"? (assume all other controls at 12:00 and no signal shape buttons)

    I appreciate your help
     
  11. Blah114

    Blah114

    Feb 7, 2008
    personally, my od light NEVER EVER comes on.. and I keep my settings both at 12 o clock.. I would not have it any other way, with this amp.. I really like the sound I get like this.. I might push it up a bit, but it gets far too boomy at that rate.

    Am I missing something.. I still get the tube's warmth, just not the overdriven sound.. to me, that suits the bands best.. and myself as well.
     
  12. sonicnuance

    sonicnuance Commercial User

    Aug 30, 2003
    California, USA
    Engineer & Owner, Sonic Nuance Electronics
    That's where I've been living on the amp lately and agree. I have been avoiding the od light as well - its good to see I'm not the only one. But I do have room to push the preamp before it comes on so I'm exploring my options and want to better understand how to control this great amp. Or, I could even go in the opposite direction (11:00).

    I know I'm overthinking this and I *do* listen to the differences. I'm just not quite sure what I'm hearing when I move that gain knob. IME it is definitely more that just a buffer or overdrive stage. It affects tone, dynamics, distortion as well as volume.
     
  13. Blah114

    Blah114

    Feb 7, 2008
    yeah, with me.. I don't even care.. I just prefer the sound that way.. at least for the music I play (Rush, etc).. I really think when I up it.. I just don't care for the sound as much... honestly, the above is precisely why I will avoid the Shuttle 12.0.. I can't stand all the EQ knobs, options.. and suge a huge tube section.. I like a bit of tube.. but prefer the other part of the amp more.. as do the guys from bands... to each his/her own.. I might, during a show, try to up the gain and hear it.. but.. only if it will suit the song.

    With two cabinets, the amp is thunderous.. with 1 ( have the 12T).. it kind of sucks in a band setting.. if you ask me.. and that is likely b/c I refuse to overdrive..
     
  14. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC/JAM USA: Distributor of Ashdown amplification

    just some insight- all amps are application specific and designs are a balance of compromises...size vs. weight vs. volume etc.

    With that being said, we never intended for a single 12T to handle a full combo, rock band scenario.
     
  15. Blah114

    Blah114

    Feb 7, 2008

    absolutely.. 100% agreed..
     
  16. sonicnuance

    sonicnuance Commercial User

    Aug 30, 2003
    California, USA
    Engineer & Owner, Sonic Nuance Electronics
    With the head and the right cab (I use an Epifani UL2-112 - though I've heard great things about the NEOX112) I don't have issues in a rock band setting. And if 375W isn't enough I'll through another cabinet at it :) Of course it is all relative, maybe I'm just not in very loud situations.

    I never dreamed I'd have 600W of power at my disposal. 350W was the max I've had and that was usually plenty for my applications. Although I know the efficiency of the cabinet has a huge impact.
     
  17. hasbeen

    hasbeen Commercial User

    Sep 23, 2004
    Vice President, KMC/JAM USA: Distributor of Ashdown amplification
    agree....the UL2-112 and Neox-112T are quite a bit bigger though than the Shuttle's 12T. With the Shuttle cab, we were going for as small and light as practical in a 1x12.
     
  18. Dan in NJ

    Dan in NJ

    Sep 3, 2004
    Jersey Shore
    If I were going for hi-fi, I'd start flat and go big w. the power amp volume and bring the pre vol up slowly and w/ the tube gain rolled down a bit.

    I just got mine Wed and have used it just on 2 gigs so far, but my impression is the tube gain (specifically pushing the tube gain until the red light flickers) will give you a B15ish sound. What seemed to work for me was the settings posted here on talkbass w/ the electric (p w/ flats, a small 15" cabinet). With upright (80 % magnetic p/up and 20% piezo blended, Eurosonic strings, same cabinet, loud but small room) I kept the tube gain up but pushed in the high boost for more clarity. An old school sound but with a bit more bite.

    The thing will fill a room, no question.
     
  19. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    The whole pooint of the OL LED on the tube preamp section is to give the player a visual indication of how much tube overdrive was happening, more of a confirmation because some of the overdrive may be masked when playing live with cymbols and a snare blaring in your ear. This way you don't unintentionally send a more overdriven sound out the DI (in post mode) to the PA because it was difficult to gauge while playing on the stage. It's purely an indicator of how much overdrive is being used, nothing more.

    Regarding midrange and overdrive, since the overdrive process generates harmonics of the bass these harmonics tend to be in the lower midrange... the 2nd and 3rd harmonics are dominant. So if you are playing a 150Hz tone, you will see more in the 300Hz - 450Hz range. Since the ears are more sensitive to the midrange, it tends to be more noticeable. This is why, IMO, a little overdrive goes a long way live.
     
  20. dbassman59

    dbassman59

    Dec 19, 2008
    Vancouver, BC
    Can you clarify what you meant here please ... What is your definition of "a full combo rock band scenario ... " .... do you mean by itself without a DI to the PA or even if it's DI'd to the PA

    I play in a 4 piece classic rock band .. and that's what I bought this for .. I thought it would have enough power at 300w to do the job.

    What exactly was it designed for then?
     
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