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Sibelius Symphony No. 1, notation

Discussion in 'Orchestral Technique [DB]' started by IamGroot, Jun 10, 2018.


  1. IamGroot

    IamGroot

    Jan 18, 2018
    A question on notation. I am using Orchestral Excerpts by Fred Zimmermann. Apologies in advance as I never had classical training.

    Measure 2, I read the last part as 4 8th notes followed by a 8th
    triplet (as indicated by the 3 subscript).

    Measure 3: two 8ths followed by two sets of triplets

    Sorry if this seems dumb. In sax solos, its common to play qtr notes subdivided by 5,6,7 etc.
     
  2. wathaet

    wathaet

    May 27, 2007
    Either post a picture or give the correct measure number. Bar two and three in that piece are timp and clarinets only.
     
  3. You may get more responses if you include a picture of the 2 measures in question. At least tell us which movement.
     
  4. neilG

    neilG

    Jun 15, 2003
    Ventura, CA
    He's talking about the rhythm at letter B in the first movement. It comes back at letter U. The section is in 6/4. Two 8ths=quarter or a triplet of 8ths=quarter. Here's the full part. Listen to the pieces and follow along and you'll see what's going on.
    Dropbox - Sibelius-Sym1.Bass.pdf
     
    IamGroot likes this.
  5. jallenbass

    jallenbass Supporting Member Commercial User

    May 17, 2005
    Bend, Oregon
    I'm not sure I understand the question.
     
  6. IamGroot

    IamGroot

    Jan 18, 2018
    Thank you, in your version, the triplets are clearly marked.

    Mystery solved.
     
  7. That’s what I see, too
     
  8. IamGroot

    IamGroot

    Jan 18, 2018
    Sorry if i confused some folks I was working from an Excerpt s book. Sitting in a hotel room. Wasnt sure I could photograph portions of scores due to copyright laws.
     
  9. Posting a screenshot of a few bars is not a problem when it comes to copyright.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
    gnypp45 and IamGroot like this.
  10. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
    The Fred Z excerpts are fine for the excerpts. The Oscar Zimmerman complete parts are essential, IMO, as they have fingerings and bowings.
     
    IamGroot likes this.
  11. neilG

    neilG

    Jun 15, 2003
    Ventura, CA
    I really dislike the O.Z. parts. I find the fingerings and bowings awkward a lot of the time, and there's hardly any room on the page to make corrections and additions. I'd rather have a clean part.
     
    CSBBass likes this.
  12. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
    To each his own. I don't use them for performance. I do like having the complete parts and use them as a starting point for bowing and fingerings with the understanding that they originate in the gut string era and may not be the best choice for use with the modern setup. Bille to Torello to Oscar is not too shabby a lineage, though. Same with the line from Simandl to Fred Z. Knowing how they did it "back then" is important to me as I continue to learn.
     
    Neil Pye and Leo Smith like this.
  13. Neil Pye

    Neil Pye

    Apr 13, 2016
    Horsham, UK
    In my view, the more data you have, the better choices you can make. Several different approaches to the same excerpts give you ways in to make your own musical decisions. You could start from nothing, but all these parts have been played before by great players, and if the information is available, why not at least try it? By all means plough your own furrow, but be aware lots of people have ploughed the same field, and you don't HAVE to work everything out for yourself.
     
    salcott likes this.

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