Side with OP, or think a bit more about it?

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by Marko 1, Aug 13, 2022.

  1. A) Side with the TB member, it's what we're here for.

    11 vote(s)
  2. B) Don't forget that there's another side of the story.

    143 vote(s)
  1. Marko 1

    Marko 1 Supporting Member

    Mar 9, 2009
    N.E. Ohio
    In any court of law or wherever we seek truth, in a matter with two points of view, both sides have to be allowed to present their cases so a reasonable decision can be made.

    I know throughout my many years I've heard countless single-sided stories, was pretty convinced that it was the whole story, then eventually found out that it wasn't as-presented... at times actually siding with the other party.

    This taught me a lesson to be, while supportive, not totally committed to condemning of that “bad” side.

    Not that anyone has to be lying, each side may sincerely present their view as they feel is accurate.

    But then there is a theory that it's more important to fully support a friend/family/associate, no matter what.

    How do you respond when hearing one side of a story?

    What is our role here?

  2. Joe Nerve

    Joe Nerve Supporting Member

    Oct 7, 2000
    New York City
    Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
    I do my best to imagine what the flip side might be, and base my response on my own experience plus the attitude of the poster.
  3. ArtechnikA

    ArtechnikA I endorsed a check once... Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 24, 2013
    There have been many threads in which a poster has come here for validation of a position which consensus observed was off-base.
    IOW -- no, we don't immediately rise as a group to support someone - even a bassist - who posts a question.
    My experience has been that for the most part, we have enough collective experience and skepticism that when a story sounds like it doesn't quite make sense, we can see through it. Such stories are typically met with additional probing questions to determine more underlying background.

    After you've been here a while, and seen posts and responses from many people, you can generally get a sense of the personalities you're dealing with.
    That background definitely colors - or at least shades - a given situation as presented.
    Moreso than someone who just joined this morning.

    Some people blithely accept everything at face value; some people are skeptical of everything.
    Do we have 'roles' here?

    Speaking solely for myself -- if I feel there's enough information to express a qualified opinion, I might, if I believe it can provide insight.
    It's never more than an opinion, based on a situation that may or may not be presented accurately.
  4. Marko 1

    Marko 1 Supporting Member

    Mar 9, 2009
    N.E. Ohio
    Very wise.

    You may vote that in the poll if you like. :)
    EddiePlaysBass and Joe Nerve like this.
  5. Marko 1

    Marko 1 Supporting Member

    Mar 9, 2009
    N.E. Ohio
    Yes, I've witness one such thread just recently, where the OP presented his story, and his own post made him look really bad,

    and most people let him know. :D
  6. basseux


    Jan 10, 2010
    I did such a thread :D
    It was about paying the money to a sub even if I could ultimately play the gig.
    What is funny is that BL was initialy aligned with the talkbass concensus (not unanimous though), to let the sub do the gig, but in the end he didn't want to pay money, so he canceled sub.
    Gig never happened because it was canceled by booker.

    I got TB support however for not wanting to rehearse in a bar, and not wanting to not respect what the venue asked in term of length of the show.
    Dust2Dust, EddiePlaysBass and Marko 1 like this.
  7. I think I know which thread you speak of. And if correct, I was a part of that conversation.

    Sometimes, I think people lead off a "validation" thread by stating they were the bad guy. Then go on to tell us the story. That's not a wise choice IMHO. The upfront admission may often be intended by the OP to head off the barrage of negative comments and help bolster his position. Anyone who pays any attention to some of the boorish comments posted by a few bad players should know to not stoke that fire in advance.

    In a place where we all hide behind the mask of our screen presence those guarantees don't exist. I find some responders so unimaginative that all they do is repeat whatever traits the OP has already attributed to himself. It's a much more dangerous version of the, I know this is a stupid question but...

    Regardless of our opinion on the matter, be it supportive or critical, it does no service to anyone to not include why you feel that way. And for those who insist on just being droll, ditto-heads, get a life.

    My suggestion to validation seekers is to not include any self judgmental comments about themselves or the persons they are at odds with. Just lay out what happened as neutrally as possible. People here will offer good advice, even if not in support, if one is being forward about presenting it. Give us a fair chance to offer that help without letting it get into vile exchanges of trash-talk, only to have the thread shut down. The OP needs to not respond to the crap posts. Doing so just validates the the crap and those who post it.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
  8. Oddly


    Jan 17, 2014
    Dublin, Ireland.
    I'm generally a pretty cynical guy, and tend not to take anything at face value.
    While I might tend to sympathise with a fellow low-ender coming here to tell a tale, I'm always aware there's at least two sides to any story.
  9. gln1955

    gln1955 Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    Ohio, USA
    Problems with band dynamics or buyer-seller issues, builder-client problems and the the like are rarely cut and dried. If they are there is no need to ask a question. Way too often, critical details are left out and even after several people ask for more information, we never get the whole story.
    Marko 1 likes this.
  10. Bajo Clarkko

    Bajo Clarkko

    Aug 9, 2015
    To quote the late Jack Bruce, in a song by Cream, from the album, “Wheels of Fire”:

    “I support the left
    Though I’m leaning, leaning to the right”

    I’d say about half the time I agree with the OP, sometimes I don’t.
    mikewalker and Marko 1 like this.
  11. GBBSbassist

    GBBSbassist I actually play more guitar...

    Nov 23, 2010
    I know who is wrong and who is right. Trust me.
  12. Marko 1

    Marko 1 Supporting Member

    Mar 9, 2009
    N.E. Ohio
    Sorry, I'm gonna have to hear another side of that story. ;)
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
  13. ShadowGroover


    Aug 16, 2020
    Many times posters tell their stories like a whining little baby in a shopping cart at a grocery store, upsetting its nursing mother while she's going through the checkout line, and unable to nurse that baby on the spot. She gets upset and starts to "express" milk through her blouse, a natural biological reaction. Then, another nursing mother, who just happens to be standing in line behind them, has the same sympathetic biological reaction to the crying baby. Meanwhile, nearby witnesses to this event are repulsed by the screaming baby.

    Such drama in the grocery store and on Talkbass. So, an appropriate response to the question is the missing option of carrots (or binkies).
  14. micguy


    May 17, 2011
    Often it's difficult to discern much from one side of a story. However, when that side is told by someone who's arrogant, clueless, selfish, etc, it's often easy to discern that they're likely most of the problem, if not all of it.
  15. There's always (at least) two sides to a story. Both may be right in the eyes of each side, and both may be right in the eyes of the outsider. In fact, many times it is not that the viewpoints are diametrically opposed, it's just that the "observers" (i.e. the parties involved) and looking at it from a different perspective and seeing different things, Chinese whispers, anyone? A court of law sometimes convicts an innocent person based upon the evidence presented. If the prosecutor is good at his "story" then the innocent might be convicted, just as if the defense is good at their "story" a guilty party might go free. We must always be prepared to take a fresh look at all sides of an argument and try and find common ground.

    I could wax lyrical for hours on this topic but, this shall do!
    Outbush and Marko 1 like this.
  16. Marko 1

    Marko 1 Supporting Member

    Mar 9, 2009
    N.E. Ohio
    I forgot... that won't happen again. :thumbsup:
    Dust2Dust likes this.
  17. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    I tell the truth as I see it, and when I ask a question, that's what I want. If we are supporting the OP when we think they are wrong, we aren't helping.
    Honkey tonk, Gearhead17 and Marko 1 like this.
  18. And that came with a cool bass riff to boot! :bassist:
    Marko 1 and Bajo Clarkko like this.
  19. No Tuna Noodle Casserole for YOU!! :mad:
    Spidey2112 and Marko 1 like this.
  20. legalbass


    Jul 2, 2020
    Being a practicing trial attorney (who certainly appreciates all the protections, privileges, and obligations a court proceeding confers) has taught me that a healthy dose of skepticism (not to be confused with cynicism) and caution when it comes to "taking sides" is generally a valuable thing. I've litigated cases where I feel like I'm trapped in the movie Rashomon -- a dozen or more people with wildly different takes on a single occurrence.

    Patience and understanding go a long way to getting to the truth.