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Signal Delay? (not "echo" effect)

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by Dugz Ink, Oct 31, 2005.


  1. Dugz Ink

    Dugz Ink

    Oct 23, 2005
    I'm wondering if there is a rocker pedal out there that will simply delay the signal... say 0-50 milliseconds. The idea is to split the signal, and use the rocker pedal to offset the second feed.

    Granted, you can do that by bumping a track in a digital sequencer, but that's a constant offest; I'm looking for something that can be varied while playing.

    Any ideas? Anything that could be modified?
     
  2. why not a delay pedal?
    just get a signal splitter and set a delay pedal to one of them...as for the rocker pedal, you could get a third hand or whatever they are called and use that.
    that would be my solution....
     
  3. Kelly Coyle

    Kelly Coyle Supporting Member

    Nov 16, 2004
    Mankato, MN
    Look for a delay with a dry and wet out -- then you don't have to split the signal. Try Memory Lane or a Boomerang or Moog or most any rack unit. I think the Boss DD-20 might have this sort of arrangement, too. There's probably about 80 others.
     
  4. Jazz Ad

    Jazz Ad Mi la ré sol Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    A splitter won't be enough.
    You need a pedal with separate dry and effect outputs.

    None comes to mind but of course (as usual) my that AX-1B could do it. There's a stereo patch with delay on one side and clean signal on the other so with an Y cable it would work. A workhorse I tell you. :)

    I'm pretty sure other multis or pedals could do the same. Just, I can't think or any right now.
     
  5. Basstyra

    Basstyra Commercial User

    Apr 3, 2005
    France
    CTO @ Two notes Audio Engineering
    Boss DD6 does.
     
  6. Kelly Coyle

    Kelly Coyle Supporting Member

    Nov 16, 2004
    Mankato, MN
    You could try to find a broadcast delay. I have no idea where.
     
  7. Dugz Ink

    Dugz Ink

    Oct 23, 2005
    Ummm... those look like they create "echo" style delay.

    I just want to delay the signal 1-50ms, and I don't want it to repeat. Is that really possible with those pedals? (A few only mention delay times in increments of 100ms.)
     
  8. Dugz Ink

    Dugz Ink

    Oct 23, 2005
    Harris Broadcasting, but those range from 3-20 seconds. I used to do business with them, so I checked it out already... but I appreciate the input.
     
  9. may i ask what you are planning to do with this effect?
    just curious...
     
  10. Dugz Ink

    Dugz Ink

    Oct 23, 2005
    Certainly.

    I was talking to a friend of mine, who is a studio engineer with a long list of accomplishments. We were talking about my idea for building a dual piezo setup (with one inverted, but that's another story), which led to a discussion about the potential benefits of phase-shifting.

    He said that he likes to record acoustic guitars direct to one track, and with a mic to another track. Then he bumps the "direct" track until the timing/phasing reduces the "ping" while enhancing the depth.

    Which brought us to this idea.

    Instead of shifting everything that is on one track, what if the "direct" signal went through a variable-delay? The player could then rock the pedal while playing guitar, creating time-induced phasing. (That could be pretty cool on a djembe, too.)

    Anything beyond 100 milliseconds is usually enough to make it sound like two taps, so I don't want to go beyond that. Meanwhile, you can get some cool effects with about 15-25ms of offset. That's why I'm focusing on something that will create 1-50ms of delay.
     
  11. You do realise that even 1ms worth of delay is a full 360 degree phase shift at just 1khz?

    50ms might even be too much!

    It'll do what you want it to do I suppose, but you might lack the fine control you really need to affect the phasing without making the delay noticeable.
     
  12. Dugz Ink

    Dugz Ink

    Oct 23, 2005
    Yep. I've been doing digital editing (and staring at waveformes) professionally for over 10 years, and I have a pretty good idea of how much delay I want to try.
     
  13. Kelly Coyle

    Kelly Coyle Supporting Member

    Nov 16, 2004
    Mankato, MN
    I know both the Boomerang and the Memory Lane will do single repeat delays, then I guess you can use the wet/dry outs to split the signal. What you're talking about seems like it would be at the "slapback" level, and I suspect the ML would be easier to dial in -- the Boomerang is tap tempo only. If you want to be really accurate with the delay time, then DD-20 is what you want (good display), but, again, I don't know what the jack situation is there. I also think something like a D-Two can do what you want.

    (Don't buy anything I recommend without verifying I've remembered correctly!)

    I just checked, and a DD-20 can do the job.
     
  14. Jazz Ad

    Jazz Ad Mi la ré sol Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Don't you get chorus rather than phase with this kind of delay ?
    You're going to hear the waves feedbacking at each other.
     
  15. Check out the new EH Flanger Hoax.

    ~ Charlie
     
  16. Dugz Ink

    Dugz Ink

    Oct 23, 2005
    Kelly...

    Thanks for the info. Cobbling two units together might be easier (for me) than trying to figure out how to wire the circuit and build the pedal from scratch, so finding something that's "close" is better than nothing.

    That Memory Lane looks and sounds sweet, but I can't spend $450 just to take it apart and put it into an old Wah pedal. Well, I could, but the missus would be a little pissed.

    But I think I can test drive the DD20 without losing honey-points.

    Jazz...

    That depends on numerous factors... including the notes that you're playing... and could sound like a phase shift, a chorus, or total anhilation. Yet another reason to do this with a rocker pedal, not something that has fixed rates or finger switches.

    moosapotamus...

    I checked out their web site. So, is it a hoax?
     
  17. Not at all. It's pretty freaky, actually. :cool:

    ~ Charlie
     
  18. fretlessrock

    fretlessrock Supporting Member

    Aug 8, 2002
    Corrupticut
    I use a DD-20 and I don't think that you can use a pedal to vary the delay time. You can only use it to do one of three things: turn the effect on or off, tap tempo, or select through the memory locations. And it has to be set to do one of those three.

    Having delay on a pedal sounds like your best bet is to use a MIDI CC footpedal and control delay time on a plugin on a separate track.

    If it is for live performance you might end up getting into some of the Lexicon or Digitech rack delay products where you can use MIDI CC to control delay time.
     
  19. The DD-20 will go down to 3ms, but no further.

    But, you can plug your signal into the A input and B output and get only the repeat (no dry blended in).

    But adjusting the delay time......you'd have to do it by hand, or program the different memory banks to different times (say, 3,4,5,6 & 7).

    A rack delay unit with many user presets seems like the most controllable option. Or an analog delay modified so that it output no dry signal and the delay time pot was replaced with a jack and sent to an expression pedal, though you may have a hard time tweeking the thing in 1ms increments.

    I donno....it seems like a studio trick that probably won't transition well to a live stage.
     
  20. Dugz Ink

    Dugz Ink

    Oct 23, 2005
    I think I found the winner: the PT80 Delay project at General Guitar Gadgets.

    According to the specs, the board is 2.5" by 3.2"... which should fit right into a Dunlop "Wah" pedal. I just have to find one on eBay that needs some new parts... rip the old board out... use the old pot, or replace it with a new one... listen my wife gripe about all of the projects that are laying around...

    moosapotamus:

    I see that you've built one. What do you think?