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Single Eden Cabs Paired-110T/112XLT

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Larzito, Sep 29, 2004.


  1. Larzito

    Larzito

    Aug 1, 2000
    Dallas, Texas
    I have an idea. What about pairing the now discontinued Eden 110T (for punch) with the new Eden 112XLT (for roundness)? I love the punch of 10's. I hate the weight of even a 210, much less a 410. 12's are nice and round, with a smooth midrange almost like a 15. Anyone have any experience with the old Eden 110T? Anyone experienced the new Eden 112XLT? Since Eden is modular, they should stack nicely to boot. Someone on TB is a fan of the 10/12 (EA I think). Am I on to something or just crazy? Volume wise, I don't play that loud if the cabs are articulating well. I've been using a Bergie HT/EX 12 mini stack lately, but bandmates miss the floor vibrations larger format cabs offer. I'm thinking the Eden mini stack may do the trick. Keep in mind I have bigger cabs for the super loud stuff...I'm looking for the ultimate portable medium sized bar rig.
     
  2. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    That may have been me who is the fan of the 1x12/1x10 combo. I certainly am a fan of this arrangement. However, I do not think that the Eden combo will be a step forward in relation to your Mini Berg stack. In fact, not too long ago, I had an opportunity to listen to the new Eden 112XLT and directly compare it to the HT112 and EX112. They didn't have the 110XLT, though. I was rather surprised at how little low end that I was hearing out of the 112XLT. While I would have to do some guesswork, as I did not hear the 112XLT with a 110XLT, I don't think that the Eden setup would have any more "floor vibrations" or more low end, or any real improvement in any regard in comparision to the Bergies. Please don't take this as a slam on the Eden cabs. I like some of their cabs quite well - 212XLT and T-210XST being my faves. It's just that for what you are describing, the Bergie Mini Stack is one of the classic cab combinations.

    Now, if you are looking to "move up" or at least "move sideways" from the Bergies, and you like the 1x10/1x12 arrangement, then I would suggest that you try an Epifani T-110UL/T-112 arrangement. I own two of each (and let me tell you, all four together takes it to another level entirely!), and I also had an opportunity to hear a T-110UL/T-112UL mini stack at the same time that I heard the Bergies and the 112XLT. From what you are describing, I would strongly recomend the Epifani setup. It has much of the tonal balance and across the board articulation of the Bergies, and a similarly sweet high end, but the T-112 has a much stronger low end, and you will definitely get all the "floor vibrations" that you could ever ask for. I would still give the Bergies the edge in upper midrange clarity and articulation, though.

    Now, if you are talking "ultimate portable medium sized bar rig", let me throw out a couple of additional suggestions.

    Check out Jorg Schroeder's cabs. There are numerous posts on them, and Big String has even done a nice comparision to the Bergie HT/EX stack for you.

    One or two EA Wizzy's are incredibly good for their size and weight. No tweeter for super high end sizzle, but no hiss, either, and plenty of clarity up top. These are 4 ohm cabs, so if you want to run two, you'd need to be 2 ohm stable.

    Any combination of the older EA VL-series cabs (two VL-110's, two VL-208's, VL-110/VL-208, or better yet, three VL-208's) are stunningly good. If you find a VL-108, though, you have to tell me so that I can buy it. :D

    If you can get them over here, the Hevos Midget is an extraordinary cab. I bought one used off a fellow TBer, and that little 1x12 is incredibly loud (it's 4 ohm) and super clear, but with decent low end extension. I can use mine with my Walter Woods in practice with a guitar player using a hopped up 50w Marshall half stack and a full drum kit. Two Midgets would be stupidly good.

    Another EA option (you can tell I like their cabs, no?) would be the CXL-112 with a CXL-110, or two CXL-112's. A lot of guys seem to use the double CXL-112 option. While it is a very good cab in its own right, I still prefer the Wizzy or VL-series options.

    Virtually any combination of Accugroove cabs in your size/price range would be killer. A Tri 110 with a Tri 112 would be killer, but keep in mind that their cabs are a bit larger than your typical "1x10" and "1x12". Of course, they don't sound typical, either.

    Finally, I would suggest that you read some of the threads about Low Down Sound's long-throw 8" equipped cabs. Larry Kaye has two of their 2x8's, and loves them, and Wilbyman used to have a 2x8, but traded it for a Bergie HT112. I actually have not heard their 2x8, but I did hear the 3x8, 4x8, and 5x8. The 3x8 is so very good for its size! If you want to shake the floorboards, I can't think of anything that will do a better job in such a small package. The one 3x8 absolutely blew away the HT112/EX112 and the T-110UL/T-112UL in terms of low end girth and volume. The Epi combo was closest, but still couldn't keep up. The 3x8 made the 112XLT sound like a tweeter! Seriously, after going straight from the 3x8 to the Eden, I had to ask the store manager if the Eden was broken! Don's cabs are very aggressively priced, too.

    Hope this helps, Tom.
     
  3. Larzito

    Larzito

    Aug 1, 2000
    Dallas, Texas
    Did you compare the two Eden 12 cabs to the two Bergie cabs or was it one Eden to two Bergies? Just want to make sure we had a fair fight. Its not extreme bass I am looking for, just a touch of the fundamental thrown in for effect. The Bergies by design do not produce the fundamental, and that is why I bought them...soundmen love them because they don't get in the way of the PA but cut like crazy on stage. To my ears, the Bergies miss something in the highs and lows...they are in the middle of the curve...and do that very well.

    Thanks for all of the suggestions. The Epi UL10/UL12 are the most intriguing (other than the Schroeder). Did it sound metallic like I'm hearing neo's often do? How does it compare to the NYC series?
     
  4. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    They only had the one 112XLT, so I did not get to hear two of them, but I did compare one 112XLT to one HT112. Neither had a ton of low end, though I'd say that the Bergie actually sounded more full to me. With the EX112, the two Bergie's sounded better than I imagine two 112XLT's or a 112XLT/110XLT would sound, but that is pretty much just conjecture.

    As for the sound of the neos versus regular, with regard to the Epifani cabs, there have been a number of threads on the topic, and jokerjky has given some excellent feedback on this. In general, I don't feel that neo-equipped cabs sound inherently better or worse than ferrous-equipped cabs. If the manufacturer does their homework, and builds the cab with neos in mind, it should sound good. That said, I tend to think that the UL series from Epifani have a bit more upper midrange clarity and articulation, which I really like. Others have said that they have slightly less low end, although to my ears, it must be a very minor difference, because it is not as evident as the upper-mid "improvement." The T-110UL/T-112UL sounded very much like my T-110UL/T-112 combo. If you take all that has been said about the Epi UL and NYC series, and you're going for a 1x10/1x12 setup then my recommendation would be a UL 1x10 for max clarity and cut, and a NYC 1x12 for maximum low end. But let me tell you, there is a huge difference in lugging around the feather-weight T-110UL and the rather hefty for its size T-112! I don't think that you'd hear much of a difference with a T-112UL, but you'd certainly apprciate it every time you move it!
     
  5. Larzito

    Larzito

    Aug 1, 2000
    Dallas, Texas
    Problem is, a couple of years ago I demo'd at practice the two Epi NYC 12's against two AG 12's. We all wanted to like the Epi's better, but overall we liked the Ags better but neither pair did it for any of us (me or the bandmates). The Ags seemed to do the vibe thing better, with the familiar low and low mid vibe. The Epi's jsut seemed to sound sterile...pretty, but sterile. I like the vibe of Bergantino, but really like the vibe of Eden even more. Eden is less about stellar clarity than it is about a cool vibe. What I really want is my 410XLT SOUND in two 50 pound or less cabs. I've even contemplated cutting it in half, much like guys did with the Peg 810 to birth the 410.
     
  6. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    So, why not one GS112, and one HT112? I think that this combo has been done by others here on TB.

    If you like the low-mid hump of the 410XLT, I would think that for a single cab solution, either one of the Schroeder cabs or the Low Down Sound 3x8 would be a killer way to go. To my ears, the 112XLT does not sound have the "Eden sound", and certainly sounds nothing like a 410XLT, IMHO.

    I will also say that a T-110UL/T-112 combo seems like a really magical combination to me. I think that it sounds light years better than two T-112's, but then again, it sounds like you and I may have differing tonal likes and dislikes. To me, the 410XLT sounds muddy and indistinct, and I like more defined and articulate mids. However, I know that for many players, the 410XLT is their "Holy Grail" of tone. To each their own, my friend.
     
  7. Larzito

    Larzito

    Aug 1, 2000
    Dallas, Texas
    I'm not so sure we are that far apart in terms of the sound we are looking for. I call it Booticulation. Articulate and plentiful booty (low end).

    In some ways the demo'd Epi's didn't get a fair shake...I was using my WT800 with the Epi's on one side and the Ag's on the other...not enough juice for either pair IMO.

    I think some have tried mismatched 12's but always return to the matched set.

    I like the IDEA of a 10 and a 12. Two 12's sound a bit muffled to my ears...I miss the leading edge of a 10.

    So in thinking about my earlier statement about really wanting a 410 that weighs nuthin', what about the Epi UL310? Any experience with that cab anyone? And to clarify, I sometimes dig the Eden 410XLT BECAUSE it has some sloppiness...it is my practice room cab and its fun to make it trip over itself in the lower frequencies from time to time...that's the vibe I speak of. The band LIKES it when it shakes the room...not all the time, just when we're goofing or experimenting or doing old school. Live, i prefer a tighter sound to keep things coherent...which is why I've been using Bergs the past couple of years...its just that there's something missing...
     
  8. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Well, if you want a huge, full, yet tight and clear sound, then I'd have to go back to Accugroove. You'd be surprised just how portable the new neo-equipped Whappo, Jr. is, and it sounds about as good as any cab I have tried. Very bootilicious! And it is thick, yet clear, across the entire fingerboard. Really quite amazing.

    As for the T-310, a lot of guys like them, and in truth it may move a smidge more air than the T-110UL/T-112, but when I bought my Epi's, I did get to A/B the T-110UL/T-112 directly to the T-310, and while I did like the T-310 very much, I felt that the two smaller cabs together were more tonally balanced and had more clarity and articulation across the board. They (Low Down Sound) also had a T-210UL, and again, I prefered the 1x12/1x10 combo. In fact, except for the superior volume potential of the T-210UL, I preferred the tone of the T-110UL by itself to the T-210UL. Of these four Epi cabs, if I had to use only one cab, I actually slightly preferred the tone of the T-112, although certainly the T-310 moved the most air. Either of the T-310 or the T-212 could be a fine cab, though, if their tone is what does it for you.

    Again, if the Epi cabs don't quite do it for you, then either Accugroove, or possibly the Schroeder or LDS, cabs might be the ticket.