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small $1000 rig for rehearsing and gigs, Bergantino HT112 + Carvin BX600?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by lonestarwings, Feb 17, 2008.


  1. First off, I'm a new player, I've only been playing 6 weeks. I have been using a 20 watt Acoustic B20 12" combo. It sounds nice but I live in a condo so even during the day I can't turn the volume up too loud and at night I'm always on headphones (sony mdr-7506's). I will probably start playing in a band with a drummer soon, so I'm looking to acquire a respectable rig since 20 watts won't hack it.

    I drive a small car (mustang) so I would prefer something small and scalable so I can fit it in there. As far as sound, I'm into rock, classic, alternative, a little bit of pop so I'm mostly a finger style groove type of player. Also, I'm a basshead, I prefer low-end to midrange, I want the fundamentals to come through strong. Because of this, I have a preference for cabs with 12's and 15's rather than 10's. Right now I just play an MIA 2007 fender p-bass though I'm already gas'ing for a 5 string eventually. My style will probably change as I again experience though, so I do need something versatile.

    Here's my top choice so far:

    Bergantino HT112ER - $649 1 x 12 w/ tweeter, 350 rms power handling, 8 ohms
    http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?sku=HT112ER

    Carvin BX600 - $429
    225w @ 8 ohms
    400w @ 4 ohms
    600w @ 2 ohms
    https://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=BX600

    I realize I will only be getting 225 watts out of the carvin with the berg @ 8 ohms, but I figure since it's stable down to 2 ohms it gives me the option to add up to 3 additional 8 ohm cabs later if I find a need for it. Plus there are really no amps designed for a lot of output at 8 ohms, and most single cabs have that impedence, so the carvin still seems like a solid choice.

    Any other reccomendations? I considered going for the berg ex112er instead of the HT. If I understand correctly it's the same cab it just lacks the tweeter, but in the end I think having the tweet will be a nice option, even if I leave it off most of time. I've looked at the Epifani UL-112 but it's a bit pricier and the low end extension doesn't appear to be as deep as the newer extedended range bergs. I'm still considering the Ampeg SVT-15E as well, but at 72 lbs it may be a little bulky and I'm slightly concerned about it's midrange (even though that's not a top priority for me, I'd still like it to be there). I'm also not entirely opposed to combos if there is one with lots of power that would fit my needs. I prefer to buy new equipment rather than used gear.

    Any thoughts, comments, and or criticisms are greatly appreciated, thanks! :help:
     
  2. allexcosta

    allexcosta

    Apr 7, 2004
    Sounds like a good plan IMO.
     
  3. Jazzman

    Jazzman

    Nov 26, 2002
    Raleigh, NC
    You might want to consider the GK 700RB head instead of that BX600...I think it might give you a little more for your $. The last time I checked, they were $500 from RMC Audio. One of the 'best buys' out there IMO.

    Another thing to consider for the type of music you list, the Orange 1x15 cabs are about $550. Berg makes probably the best cab out there, but they get expensive...the Orange could give you the rock sound you are looking for, with possibly more output(?) for less money.
     
  4. I've never tried the Berg, but it seems to me that you'd be limiting yourself initially with only a single 12 for rehearsal and shows. I played a 2 x 1x12 setup for awhile (Aggie) and together they didn't cut it for me volume wise. Personally, with $1000 I'd get a nice 2x10 (because of your transportation) and amp. In my experience, a single 2x10 does better than a single 12 when it comes to volume. Perhaps a Eden D210XLT and a GK1001RB-II? You can also buy used and probably get the amp and a couple 2x10s for $1000-$1200.

    Just my opinion - I'd definately get more speakers.

    +1 on RMC - they can get you a 1001RB-II for a great price :)
     
  5. GK heads do look nice, but how many cabs out there are bi-ampable other than GK's? I sort of feel like I'm wasting something if I can't use that tweeter amp in the GK's, in the end I guess it probably shouldn't matter though.
     
  6. I'm pretty sure the HMS system (on the 700 and 1001) only works with GK cabs. Regardless, the 1001 puts out 700 watts into 4 ohms, and 460 watts into 8 ohms. GKs are notoriously loud amps as well.
     
  7. Jazzman

    Jazzman

    Nov 26, 2002
    Raleigh, NC
    Their bi-amp thing is useless to begin with - I bet 90% of GK users don't use it. The theory behind it is good, but in reality it isn't needed. The thinking is that mild distortion doesn't sound good through a tweeter - so they have it set up so you can push the woofer amp to mildly overdrive while the tweeter remains clean.

    ...just pretend that 50W amp doesn't exist. ;) Either that, or go for a GK cab as well.
     
  8. Warfrat73

    Warfrat73

    Nov 18, 2007
    Milwaukee
    My inclination with your budget would be to spend a bit more on the head and a bit less on the cab b/c that's the easier upgrade down the road (just add a second rather than starting over, and it sounds like that's what you're planning anyway). Some people seem to really like Carvin heads, some don't (just like everything else). Have you had a chance to play that one? For your budget you could easily get a GK, or if you look around a used Eden or Genz Benz. Definitely look on the used market.

    Eventually your going to run into headroom problems if you limit your cab purchases to what you can fit in your Mustang. But you're talking about carrying around 4 cabs down the road, that seems to be a problem. It seems like you might be better off just starting off with a compact 212 like the Genz Benz NeoX-212T (which has been getting rave reviews) which will be rather headroom proof for the foreseeable future. The Berg seems like a lot of money for something that's likely to get upsized before too long (from what it sounds like, is 2 112's going to be enough?). Or maybe, considering your transportation requirements, starting off with a Bag End, or some other, 115 and planning on adding a second (lots of guys seem happy with the 2 BE 215s) or doing the 210 thing (yes, I did read the part about you not liking 10s, I'm just saying) along with a 115.
     
  9. Warfrat73

    Warfrat73

    Nov 18, 2007
    Milwaukee
    I have a GK and I pretend that the biamp doesn't exist (though I'll admit I'm curious)
     
  10. T. Alan Smith

    T. Alan Smith Guest

    Sep 9, 2001
    I went with a Markbass Littlemark II head for my Bergie HT112. It was the biggest bang for the buck at the time. I'm very happy with this rig.
     
  11. Thanks for all the reccomendations, I'm looking into all of them.

    Do you guys think I would be asking for trouble going for the carvin BX1200 which outputs 800w @ 8 ohms bridged into the bergantino rated at 350w rms? I suppose I could always run the bx1200 in multi channel mode which would give me 275 watts @ 8, but in that case I might as well go with the BX600. When I can double the power of the head for only $150 bucks more it seems foolish not to though.....

    Are there any good, single cabs which could eat 800 watts by themselves? I suppose I can make up for my lack of cab size with gobs of power to an extent. I've been looking at the schroeder 1212L a bit, it's a compact neo dual 12" cab that appears to handle 800 watts. All the comments about the 1212L's emphasis on midrange kind of makes me think it wouldn't suit my tastes that well though.
     
  12. allexcosta

    allexcosta

    Apr 7, 2004
    I've used my Berg HT112 with 600W without problems. The HT322 would be amazing and can handle 800W effortlessly.
     
  13. If you are looking for bang for the buck, try Avatar. You can get a 410 or 212 for well under $500, or a 212 for well under $400. Heck, you can get a 212 and a 210 for around $600. I have a 410 neo and it is solid. I can't compare it to a Berg or any real high end cab:bawl: but it definitely doesn't suck, and you'd be in a much better position to gig/ practice with flexibility.

    www.avatarspeakers.com
     
  14. cb56

    cb56

    Jul 2, 2000
    Central Illinois
    IMO, you will not make up the difference of a second speaker cab by adding additional power to a single cab. I use a Markbass LMII into single Aguilar GS112 at church and get away with it because it's a low volume situation. With my gigging band I go with two GS112s and it usually covers the gig. That's 500 watts into two single 12. Maybe your band will be able to keep the volume down until you get a second cab.
    Also IMO, Instead of paying $675 for a new cab, I'd look into the classified section here at talkbass for a good used cab in the $300-$400 range and then you'd have more money to spend on a NEW amp. I'm a bit wary about used amps but have had good luck with used speaker cabs.
    For example there have been several good cabs for sale in the $300 range. I like Aguilar and there have been several GS112s in that range. I see you like Bergs but that was just for example, pick one you like.
    So a $300 used cab plus a new GK or Markbass or whatever in the $600 range will get you a good start on your rig for under $1000.
     
  15. lomo

    lomo passionate hack Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2006
    Montreal
    I have the Schro 1212L and Epi UL2-112 and 210 cabs (LM2 SS or Orange all-tube head). It sounds to me as though you don't want a mid-forward cab. If that's true, stay away from the Schro. However, consider this: I don't like the sound of a mid-voiced cab when I play on my own, but in a band setting (classic rock/pop, blues, a little jazz), the Schro performance is killer-it cuts through the mix better than the Epi stuff IME-not only can I hear myself perfectly, but the drummer and singer can as well, and they say they love it. The LM2 and this cab are ridiculously loud if you want them to be, without excess boom. The whole "rig" is 48lbs and fits in my back seat. This can handle anything from practice to a large club with ease. The Epi cabs are fuller in the low end for sure, with much less mid voicing to my ears. They're also physically larger but very light. I agree with an earlier post that a single 112 will strain to keep up in a rock setting, even for practice, although I know others disagree. My Epi 210 is plenty for practice or small room, and the 112 on top of that can move similar air to the 212.




     
  16. Warfrat73

    Warfrat73

    Nov 18, 2007
    Milwaukee
    Kinda of curious why you seem to be set on a Carvin head (not a dig on Carvin, just curious). The Schroeder (bought new) would eat up your whole budget. An Avatar 212 might also be a good choice, but it sounds like you want something higher end. There are plenty of cabs that'll eat 800w, but most of them involve 4, 6, or 8 10" drivers which you don't like, and might not meet your needs for compactness (though you should be able to get a 410 sized cab in the Mustang is you're not hauling much else).

    I'm also kind of curious if you really have a sense of how much volume you're actually going to need since you say you're just starting out, or if you're just leaning towards overkill (not that there's anything wrong with that, I sure do it), but 300-400w into a 212 (heck, even a good 112 or 115) cab makes quite a ruckus. A decent used GK or Peavey into an Avatar 212 or similar will get you through a lot of gigs for half of what you're looking to spend.
     
  17. buckminster

    buckminster Banned

    Apr 29, 2006
    Sacramento, CA
    I don't know what the sensitivity on the new HT112ERs is, but if it's anywhere near the HT112 (97dB), then powering it with 800 watts would not be a problem. Bergs are typically power hungry cabs and like alot of headroom. With the BX1200 you could eventually add another Berg 12 and have a slammin' compact rig.

    Myself, I just picked up a Bag End Q10BX-D and am seriously considering a BX1200, mostly because I don't want to have to take out a second mortgage just to pay for an amp powerful enough to drive it...
     
  18. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    I totally agree.

    Except that I have used a UL112 for practice with LMII and it works fine. I was 10:00 on the volume dial and 1:00 on the gain. Lots more vol available.

    If you are just starting this 'journery' and want light and loud cabs buy epifani. I use a UL112 with a UL110 stacked on top this pulls the full 500w from my LMII. If you want to hear yourself better, definitely stack your cabs with the top cab closer to your ears... you will hear yourself better. That total rig weighs 58 LBS. You really cant beat that.

    I also have a schro1212R and it is indeed a beautiful cab. Cuts thru the mix and sounds wonderful IMO.

    I also just ordered a carvin bx1200. Looks to be a fantastic amp with loads of power and features. I have its brother head the b800 and they are great sounding amps that are very reasonably priced.

    Everybody has their opinions but this is the gear I have become satisfied with after years of going thru gear.
     
  19. Just thought I'd finish this thread off by letting everyone know that I decided on a Carvin BX600 and an Avatar b212 Neo. Haven't really had a chance to crank the thing yet but of course it shakes the house on very low volume settings. I really like the semi-parametric 3 band eq on the bx600.....I turn the low mid contour down to about 50hz with a flat setting and boost it +6 db and give te built in bass contour a +6 db boost too and it gives me a good fundamental sub-bass type response.

    The carvin has plenty of tone options with the 3 band parametric and 9 band graphic eq, drive and compression controls, plus bass and treble tone controls. More than enough for me. I'm really liking what I hear so far, granted this is my first real amp/head setup. Came in a good bit under budget too, at about $800 for the whole thing. The carvin is stable down to 2 ohms too, so if I ever needed more volume (which I doubt), I could always another 4 ohm B212 and get 600 watts going to the pair of cabs.

    The Avatar sounds great and is lightweight, which is nice. I haven't tried putting it in my car but it should fit in the front seat no problem. Overall I'm happy with the decision.

    amp.
     

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