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small lightweight stagemonitor ?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Ingemar, Nov 7, 2003.


  1. Ingemar

    Ingemar

    Sep 12, 2000
    Sweden
    Does anyone know about any small lightweight stagemonitor (or something that could work that way)wich can handle frequenzies 30hz-10(20)khz?
    I think some 100W RMS will be enough (for small stages)
     
  2. NJL

    NJL

    Apr 12, 2002
    San Antonio
    i use a shure psm600!

    :D

    that is the lightest thing, it even fits in my gigbag!
     
  3. The questions as always are how loud do you need it, do you need good low frequency response and how light and small?

    Here's the general rule (maybe changing with the new ultalight cabs):

    Small
    Loud
    Great Low Frequency Response

    Pick Two



    Again, depending on how loud you need it, I don't think 100 watts is going to do it if you want good low frequency response. Remember, you need 10 times (or more) sound pressure from low fundamentals to be perceived as loud as the mids (equal loudness curves).


    An Acme B-1 is close to what you specify, but is not gonna be very loud even if you pump twice it's rated wattage into it. Perhaps a Epifani 1X10 or Ultralight 2X10? Or EA 1X10L? Neither of these single 10s will have the bottom that the Acme does, but they will be much louder and easier to drive with lower wattage.
     
  4. Ingemar

    Ingemar

    Sep 12, 2000
    Sweden
    Do You know any website where I can read about Acme B-1? Who is general agent/dealer?
     
  5. nonsqtr

    nonsqtr The emperor has no clothes!

    Aug 29, 2003
    Burbank CA USA
    My experience with bass monitors is that it's best to EQ out everything below 60 or 80 Hz. What I really need to hear is the string attack, not the fundamental. I don't know of many dinky 12" monitors that like low frequencies anyway. I use a BagEnd slant 12 when I need extra stage volume, and I run it through a high pass filter, or sometimes just tap the crossover (depending on which rig I'm using). That particular speaker is really designed for PA use (I think), but it works fine as a bass monitor as long as you don't try to kiil it with low frequencies.
     
  6. Ingemar

    Ingemar

    Sep 12, 2000
    Sweden
  7. Ingemar

    Ingemar

    Sep 12, 2000
    Sweden
    I want to hear the B string on my bass (without humping a lot of gear) as well as my backing vocal (and preferably some of the programed drums)
     
  8. nonsqtr

    nonsqtr The emperor has no clothes!

    Aug 29, 2003
    Burbank CA USA
    "I want to hear the B string on my bass (without humping a lot of gear)..."

    Well, good luck. You don't need "a lot" of gear, just one "big" piece will do (an 18" speaker will definitely get your B string heard). I'm not trying to be facetious, it's easier to hear low notes with big speakers. When I was touring with the 'Bones I used to put an 18 up on a chair so the low notes would get up in my face instead of going out below the waist. I think, though, that you'll still "hear" the B if you EQ out some lows, it just won't have any fundamental. Which is okay most of the time (for monitoring purposes). And I'll note in passing that most small speakers don't respond well to low frequencies at high volumes. In my lifetime I've seen more than one 10" speaker cone flying all the way across the stage. All it took was one good "thump" on the low B. But at 100 watts, you should be able to get away with something like a BagEnd 12. They're fine speakers. They won't blow just because they're getting 31 Hz.

    "...as well as my backing vocal (and preferably some of the programed drums)"

    Okay, I get it. It sounds like you're talking more along the lines of a PA monitor, but one where you can control the relative levels of the instruments. This is entirely doable, but usually requires a board with separate monitor sends (unless all your band members want to hear exactly the same mix that you do). What's your board like, does it have this capability?
     
  9. You can always look into getting a 15" full range powered/active monitor wedge, such as the Peavey Pro 15PM, although it's not big on low end. You get the general idea...
     
  10. If you add low bass to the monitor, you're really going to make things difficult for the sound system. By reproducing frequencies below 50 Hz, you're going to be more susceptible to feedback, the monitor mix will be more "muddy", and take tons of power to drive that monitor. Many PA's will cut low frequencies-it's called a "rumble filter"-- to eliminate speaker-destroying sounds, like a mike stand being shaken a little.

    I don't put bass into a vocal monitor mix, it's hard enough to get clean vocals without throwing more mud in there.

    Like nonsqtr said, you really don't need to hear the fundamental. The human ear will perceive a fundamental even if its not there. Also if you want to run a separate bass monitor you're going to need a PA mixer that has enough aux sends to do another monitor mix. I generally run two monitor mixes, one for the stage front and one for the drummer. More mixes means more amps and speakers to lug around, longer setup time, and more money tied up in PA equipment. (Who owns the PA?)

    Summary: I recommend keeping your bass out or the monitor mix. To hear your bass, your rig should be your stage monitor. IMHO.
     
  11. The reason that bass sounds muddy in the monitors is that they are not designed to produce low fundamentals. Most have a steep roll off at 80-100hz and when you put those frequencies through them they sound like mush.

    Not a problem with the Acmes. As others have noted, they are like big studio monitors and will work fine with vocals and bass and anything else. They will also work as PA mains (the smaller Acmes are available with cups for speaker stands. I've used my 2X10 as a speaker for my stereo and it sounds great! You should hear Edgar Meyer playing the Bach cello suites through a speaker that will clearly produce bass fundamentals, YOW!
     
  12. Ingemar

    Ingemar

    Sep 12, 2000
    Sweden
    Thank's for all your answer.
    I'm living in Sweden (way up north) and unfortunately neither Epifani nor Acme is available here, but Gallien-Krueger Backline 112 is.Do you think it will handle a five string?
     
  13. VellaBass

    VellaBass

    Aug 29, 2003
    London, UK
    Hey Ingemar, the Backline 112 will definitely handle a 5 string. I'm just moving up from a 110, as we are gigging now and I need more volume on stage, but in rehearsals we used the 110 as a bass monitor for the drummer, who plays a loud kit, and he heard it fine, down to the low B (when I used a 5er, which I don't any more).

    The backline combo's are not much use as anything other than a rehearsal amp, a recording amp or a dedicated bass monitor for one person on stage, but for those things they do it real well.
     
  14. notabob

    notabob

    Sep 20, 2003
    cincinnati ohio