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Smaller in Size but Sounds like Ampeg 8 x 10

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by John Farrington, Jun 4, 2020.


  1. John Farrington

    John Farrington

    Jun 4, 2020
    Just over 25 years ago I had an Ampeg SVT classic head and 8 x 10 Cab, all US built. After playing for many years and trying so many different rigs, found this to be my ultimate sound!! After packing up and selling all my gear 20 years ago, have just setup again, and knowing that it had to be Ampeg again, decided to buy the same, except this time, decided the rig needed to be a little smaller for the initial home use. So I bought the SVT-CL Heritage head (4 ohm or 2 ohm) and a 410HE (8 ohm) cab. I believe when I tried this at the store, I had convinced myself that the sound was identical to the 8 x 10 - wrong!! The 410HE does not have the same PUNCH and TIGHT compressed sound that I had been use to. It just sounds a little BOOMY. I have read several postings on this forum, and it appears any smaller speaker cabinet configuration will never give the same sound that a larger number of speakers will give, but really don't want to go back to the huge 8 x 10 cabinet, unless all other options fail!!

    I have discussed this in great length with a very good friend who is an electronics engineer, and between us it appears that firstly to get a tighter, punchier, more compressed sound that I prefer, and one where all notes cut through the mix, that firstly I would I need a 4 ohm cab rather than 8 ohms which is the impedance of the the 410HE I have. It may also create a tighter sound if a mixed 2 X 4 ohm cabs to reduce the impedance down to only 2 ohm (switching the head to 2 ohm). My question here is, for the smaller and lighter to carry option (excepting is still a compromise to a 8 x 10) which configuration would give the closest sound to the 8 x 10? I have also looked at the 410 HLF which is 4 ohms, but it appears that a ported cabinet can give a more 'boomier type sound' (thats my expression not the engineer's) than the 410HE. So there is so many different configurations for me to consider and without finding a store where I can try them makes the choice very difficult. I have even considered, ordering 4 new US made eminence drivers (4 ohms) to replace the 8 ohm ones in the existing 410HE I have.

    Which configuration would you think would work best?

    A: 2 X 10 speaker cabinet at 4 ohms and which make, or should I build my own?

    B: 2 of 2 X 10 speaker cabinets at 4 ohms (head set to 2 ohms) and which make, or should I build my own?

    C: 2 X 12 speaker cabinet at 4 ohms and which make?

    D: Keep the 410HE and replace the chinese eminence 8 ohm drivers with genuine 4 ohm US drivers?

    Any other configuration ideas?
     
  2. Yahboy

    Yahboy

    May 21, 2008
    i also suspect the new version SVT-CL Heritage Head lacking the " Legend Ampeg Voice" from your earlier SVT classic head........

    or.... hearing discrimination 25 years apart....
     
    GravyGoodness likes this.
  3. John Farrington

    John Farrington

    Jun 4, 2020
    Possibly, but need to try alternative speakers before giving up and hoping someone here may be able to point me in the right direction.
     
  4. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    You do understand that the impedance of the drivers used has virtually no effect on the sound, right?
     
  5. John Farrington

    John Farrington

    Jun 4, 2020
    From my understanding the impedance can make a difference to the tone. Also from my understanding is that the speaker will be driven harder by the amp, which can have an effect on the tonal response. A combination of course of many factors and not just impedance. I am conisdering changing the chinese eminence 10 inch for the same US build, Beta, Gamma or Kappa. I am also looking at improving on the baffle arangement and to add additional wadding. I will stand of course to be corrected and any alternative advise?
     
  6. Yummy Notes

    Yummy Notes

    Dec 20, 2019
    Would a high pass filter address the boominess and allow you to punch through? That seems to be the complaint.
    I don’t know enough to answer the question, but certainly others here are more knowledgeable.
     
    GregC, Pocket4, fclefgeoff and 2 others like this.
  7. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    Without commenting too much on these statements, I'll just offer my opinion that the second one is more likely to be valid than the first.

    Other random thoughts:

    You can certainly buy better drivers than the stock ones, but just swapping drivers without a plan isn't a path to success. And spending money to replace 4 drivers starts to add up; it might be more advantageous to sell that cab and get a different one.

    Increasing the amount of absorptive material inside might help some with the 'boominess', but again, a different cab might be indicated. It wouldn't cost much to experiment with additional 'wadding'.

    If your cab has 8-ohm drivers, you could experiment with wiring them in parallel for a 2-ohm load, Again, no cost -- just a little effort.

    A HPF would probably help some. There... I said it. :D
     
  8. John Farrington

    John Farrington

    Jun 4, 2020
    The drivers are 32 ohms making it an 8 ohm cabinet, hence the reason looking to change the drivers to 16 ohm to make a 4 ohm cabinet. Yes I have already looked at alternative 4 x 10 but the difficulty is trying to find a physical shop where I could try them. I also looked at the 410 HLF but others have said that due to this being ported and a deeper cabinet also gives a boomier sound. I had hoped that someone might have been in a very similar position to me and had tried different drivers at a lower impedance and had notice a significant difference. As said realise it’s trial and error and may have to try and take the hit if doesn’t work.
     
  9. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    Oops...nevermind then.
    Hmmm...I don't have any experience with these two boxes in particular, but in general, that isn't considered to be how it works, at least IME.

    My apologies for offering opinions where my knowledge base is so limited, but first, you should be able to get a 410 that gives you what you perceive to be the 810 sound. And 'trial and error' is a costly and frustrating way to proceed. At the very least, you could measure/calculate the internal volume of the cab and look at the data on the Eminence site to see how that matches up to their recommended volumes for sealed boxes with the drivers you're considering.

    Anyway...apologies again for chiming in when I have so little to offer. I presume some other users who have more direct experience with what you're trying to do will be along directly. I'm thinking specifically that @JimmyM would have some valid observations.
     
  10. John Farrington

    John Farrington

    Jun 4, 2020
    Thank you any help welcomed and sorry forgot to say will consider HPF too, will mention this to my friend to see if considers this may help.
     
    Yummy Notes likes this.
  11. the boomines of 410HE comes from around 150-200Hz frequencies and (Sometimes) not enough lows to properly “sit” in a dense mix. Also, I found out that this cab doesn’t like flat wounds. In result I got 410HLf and got rid of the boomy sound.
    HPF IMHO won’t help.
     
    Auspuff and Yummy Notes like this.
  12. InhumanResource

    InhumanResource

    Dec 28, 2012
    I would try a pair of 210AV cabinets. The 410HE actually will do the trick but you need two of ‘em!

    How small do you need to go? Berg NV610 is pretty compact.
     
    GregC, JohnnyChatter and jastacey like this.
  13. Lobster11

    Lobster11 Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    One important aspect of an 8x10 is its height: It gets some speakers up closer to your ears so you can hear its full range. If you have a 4x10 on the floor pointed at the backs of your knees, you'll hear the low frequencies but not the mids or highs. For this reason (among others), I much prefer a pair of vertically stacked 2x10s to a 4x10 box. If you choose a 4x10, make sure it isn't sounding "boomy" just because of where you're standing, and consider putting it on a stand.
     
    BassNugget, GregC, WillyWonka and 9 others like this.
  14. Bigbri

    Bigbri

    Aug 4, 2015
    No, use two 410's. People used to literally cut those 810's in half. I know a guy who currently is using one of those halfs. He has a nice sealed Ampeg 8 ohm 410. You don't really have to buy a whole new cabinet. When I blew one of my old Evm 15b's I had it reconned for 50 bucks at Steve's Music. I could have put in a 4 ohm coil had I thought about it at the time. The speakers in the 810 are 32 ohm. If you want a new sealed cab for a big tube head, a lot of people on here like the Bergantino NV610.
     
    MCF and InhumanResource like this.
  15. Al Kraft

    Al Kraft Supporting Member

    May 2, 2016
    Northern Virginia
    @JimmyM is absoluetly who I would turn to in this situation. I'm confident he can steer you to the right gear to try out to get to your tone goal or at least direct you to the right technical person to help with redesigning/revoicing what you have.
     
    -Asdfgh- and JimmyM like this.
  16. Blaze Barlow

    Blaze Barlow

    Mar 8, 2018
    Nashville
    I am currently using two 410 HLF cabs..and even though I have heard many times about the "boominess" of the cabinet..I dont have that problem..I am using an ampeg SVT pro 4 head..I also run the bass through a tech 21 RPM preamp before the amp head..I can dial in or dial out anything..sounds great..Have even used with two 410's and one 810..
     
  17. John Farrington

    John Farrington

    Jun 4, 2020
    Thank you all for your help. I had considered the 410 HLF but went off the idea as there were a few others on this forum that said it gave them a boomy sound .... so really confused now!!

    Yes understand the concept of the cabinet in the floor and will try higher up, but although I am sure that will help it still doesn’t sound anywhere near the 8 x 10 setup I had (perhaps because it’s not a 8 x 10). I have also considered the 6 x 10 cabinet but again where could I find one to try?
     
  18. CyberSnyder

    CyberSnyder Gold Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2003
    Maryland
    I Endorse Alien Audio Basses
    I can't remember what Drakar smells like from 25 years ago, but if you can remember what an SVT sounded like 25 years ago and your hearing hasn't changed, good for you.
     
  19. MattF007

    MattF007

    Sep 27, 2019
    I believe the original Ampeg SVT cabinets were sealed as oppose to being ported which can make a big difference. I have a Bergantino sealed NV212T and I perfer it over ported cabinets I have owned.
     
  20. Low Down Brown

    Low Down Brown

    Jan 8, 2018
    Erf
    The 2-2x10's would probably get you in the range of the sound you're looking for, especially if you do a vertical stack. I've never played one but I hear great things about the Revsound 4x8 and 4x10 verticals. They have a reputation for being light, punchy, and LOUD. Might be worth a look.
     
    Thegrandwazoo, Bigbri and mcnach like this.

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