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So I need more volume, but don't want more cabs

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bino, Dec 30, 2005.

  1. bino


    Jun 27, 2002
    Orange County
    I've been playing with a 4 piece rock band recently that's very loud. I've got an Eden WT550/Aguilar GS112 setup that I like, but it really strains at these rehearsals. My gain is on the sweet-spot (around 12:00) and the Master is around 2:00-3:00 with the limiter light kicking in constantly. I'm concerned about cranking the master much more.

    We have a gig coming up and I know I can go through the PA, but I don't care for how much I'm pushing it at rehearsals. Last night I cut the bass and boosted the mids and can be heard better, but gain and master had to stay the same.

    I've been toying with getting another Aggie or maybe a Schroeder 1210. But I don't want to lug two cabs (aggies) to a rehearsal and I don't expect this band to be a long-term project, so the Schroeder could become obsolete.

    How does the Schroeder handle low volumes or sparse mixes? I think the Aggie really excels here because it sounds so full. And does the Schroeder give a big, filling sound or does it sacrifice that for cut? I suspect 2 Aggies would sound much more massive, but I don't have any basis for this idea. I'm also considering dumping the GS112 for a GS210 to get more speaker area and a similiar sound, but the weight of that cab isn't too appealing. Anyone know how loud a GS210 can get? I suppose there's the 210XLT too, but I've never played through Eden cabs either.

    Bottomline, I like what I have but a 1x12 just doesn't seem to be enough all the time.
  2. bino


    Jun 27, 2002
    Orange County
    I should also mention that I'm open to other cab suggestions. As much as I like my Eden/Aggie combo, I'm not always crazy about it with my Pbasses (which I mostly play).

    Big round P + big round Aggie = Big fatass (sometimes good, sometimes bad)
  3. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    Fremont, Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    To be honest, my best advice would be to sell both the WT-550 and the GS112 and pick up a Bergantino IP112. This has an internal amp that will drive 500w into the single 12", and 1,000w into a 4 ohm load (if you get the EX112 to go underneath). It's about as loud as I think you are going to get out of a 1x12 setup (EA iAMP 800 driving a 4 ohm Wizzy might come close, though), and it has an amazing full yet clear tone (see my thread on the new IP line of cabs from Bergantino).

    As always, though, it depends to a large part on what tone you are after, and where your personal preferences lay. The nice thing with the IP112, though, is that it's like the perfect "blank canvas" upon which to shape your tone.

    Hope this helps, Tom.
  4. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    Or... the WT550 puts out plenty of ooomph, especially at 4ohms. You are just expecting too much out of one single little 112 cab... even a good one like the Ag.

    You either need to add another cab (two gs112's sound great... would be a lot louder, and would allow the WT550 to put out more wattage).... I know you said you didn't want to do that, but that's the way to get more volume.

    PS Regarding the Schroeder1210... it will be MASSIVELY louder than your 112, and is a good match for the WT550.... however, to your specific question... IMO it does give up some low end fullness to achieve the amazing punch and cut through given it's size. I would really just add another GS112... you can still use a single one for most gigs and just add the second one when needed :)
  5. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    Fremont, Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Sure, if you were willing to consider this option, then this would be the easiest way to get more volume. That WT-550 is a nice little amp. Tonal preferences would be determinative, IMHO, of what cab(s) to use with it.

  6. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    +1... it just seems that if he's happy with the sound of the GS112 it would be the least expensive way to get a lot more boom, and still allow for using a small single cab when needed. I'm sure the ISP Berg would sound amazing, but it seems he would have to come up with a bunch of money in addition to what he would get for selling his current rig.

    Bino... I know we've PM'd, but I didn't think it regarded this specific issue. I think you were just directly asking about the Schroeder's. Feel free to PM me any time!
  7. dave_bass5


    May 28, 2004
    London, UK.
    Im in the same situation with my ABM 300 evo2 325watt head.
    I cant decide between The GS210 (4 ohms), 2x GS112 (a bit to expensive) or one of the Schroeder Cabs, either the Mini12+ or 1212.
    im used to playing a cheap 1x15 but dont want to loose to much bottom by going to 2x10 but the size of the Schroeder's is putting me off.
    im pretty sure ill get a GS210 but cant get to hear one first (same with the Schroeder's)

  8. murphy


    May 5, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    I honestly think you will have to have two cabs....or one 2x12 or 4x10
    to be loud enough for your needs....
    If you don't wish to buy another, you could rent something in the meantime
  9. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    Fremont, Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    True. The IP cabs aren't inexpensive, but believe it or not, I do think that they offer a lot for the money (compared to, say an HT112 and a Walter Woods Ultra).

    Switching to a 4 ohm 1x12 (if the GS112 is not 4 ohm) may make for a definite volume improvement. If you like the sound of Schroeders, then swapping one out for the GS112 might make sense. My personal tastes stray elsewhere, though, so I might suggest an EA Wizzy, if you go this route (and keep the WT-550).

  10. bino


    Jun 27, 2002
    Orange County
    Thanks guys. That's right, Ken, I was just trying to get a better handle on the Schroeder sound. I messed around with my eq enough last night to know that I can get enough of the mids I'm looking for (to hear myself). Now it just comes down to volume without straining

    The Berg stuff is out of my league (both in price and performance). I'm leaning towards the second Aggie at this point (they're all 8 ohms). I've just been spoiled by not needing to haul much around until now. I've also considered adding a Bagend S15D instead as a second cab. I heard others play that cab and liked it, but never directly compared it to the Aggie nor played it live myself. Then again, It may just sound similiar to a Schroeder with all those low-mids.

    If only the guys would practice at reasonable volume and wait until live shows to crank it. Actually, I've got a feeling that the clubs won't let us play as loud as we practice. :rolleyes:
  11. nysbob


    Sep 14, 2003
    Cincinnati OH
    You really can't expect bass through a single 12 to keep up with a rockin' band...I don't care how good it is. Add a 15. :)
  12. Jonesy4fnk

    Jonesy4fnk Supporting Member

    I can comment on my experience with the Schroeder vs Aggie sound..... I A/B's my Aggie 212 and my Schroeder 1212. The 1212 was considerable more audible, it was louder, but it also just filled up the room without getting muddy. The low end was tighter and could be felt deep down. The 1212 does have a mid range bump, but I've found that onstage it really helps me hear everything I play. The Aggie seemed to have more higher end punch, though the 1212 wasn't lacking either. Overall the Aggie seemed less colored than the 1212, but to get the sound I was after with the Agggie, I had to color the tone with my preamp anyway. The 1212 is a smaller cab, but it blew my svt-410 away, its a little power house.

    I am interested in hearing one of those IP322s though.
  13. bino


    Jun 27, 2002
    Orange County
    I'd consider giving a Schroeder a whirl if I wasn't concerned about it's performance at low volumes. $700+/- is about all I really care to have invested in cabs at this time, so I'd end up selling the Aggie to cover a Schroeder.
  14. Jonesy4fnk

    Jonesy4fnk Supporting Member

    the 1212 performs excellent at low volumes....and with lower power. I live in a townhouse so I practice at a pretty low volume and the tone is there. Of course, it does sound even better at normal levels and higher.
  15. Mattski


    Jan 6, 2003
    Cleveland, OH
    I think you will be very suprised at how much of a difference a second 12 will make. Also, two 112s are easier to haul around then one 212. (IMHO)

    Good luck.
  16. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Great advice above, but I really think the cheapest and easiest (and certainly effective) way to achieve your goal is to add another Aggie 112. It will get you noticeably more volume and coverage, and like mentioned above it will still be easy to move around - though it will require an extra trip.
  17. SteveC

    SteveC Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 12, 2004
    North Dakota

    Here's a no cost option - tell everyone to turn down at rehearsals. There is NO REASON to be that loud when you are rehearsing. NONE. If you are fine at gigs with the PA assist, then why spend money to be hears at a rehearsal?

    Most bands rehearse AND pefrorm at an unnecessary volume levels. Turn down. You may be amazed at what you'll actually hear.
  18. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    yeah, turn down at rehearsals.

    at gigs, you might not be so lucky.

    from experience, i can tell you that although the aggie 112 sounds great, it's not the loudest cab out there - esp due to the way the mids are voiced. you might not liek the tone, but a bag end 115 will be quite a bit louder. so much so that i dont reccomend using them on the same mono amp. i have, but the aggie tends to get a bit buried. sounds ok, but not the best.

    overall i concur that the best approach is to use a second cabinet of some kind for the louder situations. even some of the 1x10 cabs out there will add a reasonable amount of volume to that rig, and yes, a pair of aggie 112s sounds a lot bigger than one.

    if you can't borrow or rent one cheap, i'd look around the used market. probably some guys and gals ou tthere who need the money to pay off the cards from christmas shopping. ;)
  19. Nedmundo

    Nedmundo Supporting Member

    Jan 7, 2005
    I agree with all the others suggesting a second 112, but one question: are you using a compressor? I've gotten by with a G-K Neo112 at a rock gig (albeit three piece band) using an Aphex Punch Factory to tame transients so I could crank the master a little more. The Aphex Bass Xciter pedal can also make a small rig sound larger, but I haven't tried mine at a gig yet. (I think BP's reviewer exaggerated by saying it's like adding another cabinet. I'd say it makes a 10 sound like a 12, and a 12 sound more like a 15.) If you can't get the band to turn down, and you're almost loud enough, one of these might be just enough.
  20. Mikefish07


    Apr 6, 2003
    I had the same problem. I was using the Eden WT550 with a EA CXL112L cab which sounded great but started flapping when my guitar player got his 60watt amp cranking. I didn't want to carry two cabs for all the gigs so I picked up a BagEnd S15D cab and it's just loud enough. It doesn't sound as good as the EA but it is louder. My clip lights flash all the time too.